If you want to discuss technicalities then you are correct so let me rephrase in a manner you'll understand.
You can't change your core personality over a few quick tricks of "games" a man plays. You can be aware of all these tricks/games and try to play them but this won't change your core personality no matter how good you get at faking it.
What I'm saying is when guys are talking on the internet and someone says "just don't text her good morning every morning and then she won't get like this" I can safety say that's not it. A man would need to change absolutely everything about his core personality not just a few tricks here or there like this...because that's what ultimately this is: a reflection of his personality.
Since your personality is already mostly set-in-stone, a much bigger factor is going to be looks holding all else constant.
If a good looking man doesn't text her good morning he has a much higher chance of success than a bad looking man who doesn't.
To summarize the point I'm making. Men playing games with women doesn't work. I've seen men do this all the time and it doesn't get men anywhere. 99% of the time the men play the games, the people see right through the games to the core of the man's personality. The woman has already decided if she finds the man attractive or not and what the man does at this stage has limited impact. That's why the advice of "just be yourself" isn't actually bad advice. Men don't like this advice because then men have to accept that they aren't truly in control of the women they can or cannot obtain but that's mostly true. Men have very limited impact on their ability to get women. A man's genetics are set when he's born and so is most of his life trajectory based on his parents and this will shape his overall attractiveness. You can't run away from who you are by playing some games with women on asserting texting dominance at the start of the relationship. You're either already attractive or you're not and these little games mean mostly nothing in the end.
A great example of this is PUA shit. These guys think all the stuff they say matters but it mostly doesn't. The woman has already decided if she is going to sleep with the guy or not no matter what he says. It's just a matter of don't say anything so bad she loses all interest despite already being interested. Like on tinder when guys with hot pics tell women they were in prison for pedophilia and the girls still want to meetup to fuck.
Yes, I agree you see bad looking men with good looking women so obviously certain things other than looks matter but really, it comes down to what the woman wants and each woman is slightly different. You can try to play games all you want but most men are simply getting lucky that they are what the woman wants rather than the man actively changing things to get what he wants. Most men have very limited influence on their ability to gain women or not. That's why you have men who literally have never thought to try to get women and they end up with any woman they want and you have high IQ smart men unable to get women no matter what they do. It's not that they lack the ability to problem solve the situation, it's that they lack the genetics and upbringing to get women which is ultimately the most important thing. What you say or don't say doesn't matter because if you had what it takes to get women through superior personality you'd already say what needs to be said without thinking about it. Guys trying to improve their chances by saying/doing the right thing aren't going to change who they really are so they aren't going to have any more or less success doing this stuff. If the guy ends up successful, he was already going to be successful regardless of what he thought he should say to certain things.
These "games" are worthless. Either you're attractive (both physically and personality) or you're not. The more attractive you are the more you can say whatever you want. The less attractive you are the more you have to say/do all the right things but if it doesn't come naturally, the more you're going to fuck up so trying to focus on one thing like just don't text her in the morning isn't going to be it because there's no at that was going to be the make or break. Either you were already so attractive to begin with that it doesn't matter or you were already so unattractive to begin with no matter what you did, it was going to end poorly for you anyhow.
A majority of things about someone are set in genetics from their parents. The idea that everyone is born a blank slate that can gym and work their way to success from absolutely nothing is simply not viable or realistic in all but the most extreme of examples. Of course, self-help gurus and coaches will treat you as a blank slate because the alternative won't make them money. People don't like to hear uncomfortable truths either but alas, reality, nature and evolution doesn't care about people's feelings.
People also tend to see an exception and assume that the rule is null and void. Of course under that logic, heterosexuality would be a myth! But we all know otherwise.
The only problem with saying that truth is that it just gives people a blank check to give up. "I was just born like this, no point trying!" Its just "my genetics made me fat" all over again.
So its not that its untrue, its that you can't do shit about it so why even bother thinking about it? Its literal brain rot to bog you down with to even give it a moment's thought, when you can instead be focusing on what you can change and improve.
The problem isn't self-improvement, it's advice that is unrealistic and any critique of it is handwaved away as a 'negative mindset'. Not everyone can be Elon Musk levels of rich and status by going to the gym and touching grass. It's a sad fact of life but life isn't fair, you can't change your genes and not everyone is going to succeed in life. The self-help gurus and coaches won't tell you that because it's kryptonite to their profitability.
I don't disagree, but telling people to reach for the stars knowing they will fail is infinitely better than telling them to not even try because they were born already a failure.
Just because predators take advantage of something doesn't make it a bad thing. It just means be mindful of fucking grifters trying to exploit you.
The only problem with saying that truth is that it just gives people a blank check to give up.
Yeah, it's one thing I really dislike about the modern blackpill men's movement. There's a lot of truth to what they say and, although they get some things wrong about women, they also get a lot right...but their conclusions are, at least in my opinion, totally wrong. And they focus on the wrong things, give up, and play the blame game. To use the more lefty word, some of it gets really toxic too. It's defeatist, it's jealous, it's just unpleasant.
...instead be focusing on what you can change and improve.
Yup, this is the way. Also, although there is some truth in XYZ being set in stone...we have so many other things bogging us down too, especially in this modern world. Just because someone's personal foundation may not be perfect, doesn't mean they can't become a much better and more attractive person by getting rid of some of the utter trash sitting on the foundation. People have so many issues, many of which can be fixed, much of it even with relative ease.
Focusing on that you can't change some things about yourself or, per this topic, that there are plenty of unpleasant characteristics of women, doesn't get you anywhere, even if those things are true. As you said, it can be both true and completely unproductive or even destructive to focus on.
Just because someone's personal foundation may not be perfect
Its basic multiplication. A 10 from birth only needs to put in 2x the effort to be a 20, while a 2 from birth has to put in 10x. Which might not even be possible or probable to do, leaving him forever lower simply because of his starting hand.
But you can still get that multiplier up to something rather than just be a 2 wasting his life away in blackpilled misery.
Only societal destruction and rebuilding can allow the common man to get a woman. If women are allowed to make their own choice the rates of murder suicide and rape among men will only continue to grow.
It's not technicalities, it's commonplace. Again, yes, being hot is an advantage. Being ugly is a disadvantage. But it's not just fringe cases; attractive people fail on the regular, ugly people succeed on the regular.
...let me rephrase in a manner you'll understand.
And that's not necessary. I disagreed with you, but I didn't talk down to you.
You can't change your core personality over a few quick tricks...
Nope, and you shouldn't want to. Improve yourself, for yourself. There are tricks that make it more effective, but it really does have to be a genuine process.
internet and someone says "just don't text her good morning every morning and then she won't get like this" I can safety say that's not it.
That wasn't even what was said. What was said was, don't agree to her demand. In these instances agreeing just makes things worse. It's not a "trick," just say no to bullshit. Again, not a trick in the slightest. You're not trying to trick anything, or change yourself.
A man would need to change absolutely everything about his core personality not just a few tricks here or there like this...
I think we're just coming at this from different angles. I'm not saying saying "no" is a magic cure-all. Just that in this hypothetical it would have been a good start. Perhaps the relationship would have still spiraled and ended. But agreeing to nonsense was a bad move regardless.
Since your personality is already mostly set-in-stone, a much bigger factor is going to be looks holding all else constant.
Your personality might be, but the "vibe" you give off doesn't have to be. Plenty of things can make you more or less attractive, beyond either your appearance or "personality." People think of confidence as related to personality, and it is, but it's also related to where you are in life. So even something as simple as a short run every day, or the classic "hitting the gym" can make you more attractive, even before and differences in physical appearance. Mental state is easier to change than overall personality, and does come through in many ways that other people can pick up on.
If a good looking man doesn't text her good morning he has a much higher chance of success than a bad looking man who doesn't.
Again, it's not about the text. It's about handling extraneous bullshit.
To summarize the point I'm making. Men playing games with women doesn't work. I've seen men do this all the time and it doesn't get men anywhere.
It can. But, again, that wasn't even my point. I wasn't asking people to trick anyone, or play games. I'm saying set boundaries, don't give in just because an ask may be seemingly easy. Going along with bullshit also doesn't get you anywhere. You keep calling it games and tricks. Simply and legitimately saying "no, I don't want to do that" is not a game or a trick.
That's why the advice of "just be yourself" isn't actually bad advice.
It is and it isn't. Yes, don't be fake. Don't do tricks. But work to improve yourself. Being "yourself" and accepting that that will dictate your entire life...that puts you completely out of control, and gives up any need to strive for anything. And even if it were true, it's a very traditionally male thing to try to overcome that anyway. Maybe you still lose, sure. But better to have tried. So, yes/no: Don't be yourself...be a better version of yourself.
You can't run away from who you are by playing some games with women on asserting texting dominance at the start of the relationship. You're either already attractive or you're not and these little games mean mostly nothing in the end.
I wish you'd stop calling them games, but I've already said that repeatedly. But look at it this way, then. If she's already decided how she feels about you, it also doesn't matter the other way. If what she's asking is stupid, and could lead to the spiral described in the video, head that off at the pass and just say you're not interested in that. If you're not attractive enough, she'll dump you anyway. If you are, she'll accept that, and you'll have one less potential relationship-destroying bit of drama floating around. Basically, pick a lane. Assert yourself, say no to bullshit. Or say yes to bullshit, but actually follow throw. Do everything she says. And I'm not even saying that derogatorily, that does work for some relationships. It's a little gross, but if it's a personality match, that's up to them. But agreeing to bullshit and then doing a half-assed job will legitimately have negative effects; the crazy lady in the video is actually right about that.
A great example of this is PUA shit. These guys think all the stuff they say matters but it mostly doesn't.
I hate the PUA stuff. But I'll again say this is a mix of truth and exaggeration. Changing or even just thinking about how you come at social situations will have an effect. In that sense PUA stuff can be helpful...irony is, most of the men who would benefit from it don't have the drive to put in the work to get the benefit from that either.
If the guy ends up successful, he was already going to be successful regardless of what he thought he should say to certain things.
I'm calling bullshit, and I'm also saying this is defeatist and a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, some people have it easier than others. But some people put in the work to be able to be successful.
These "games" are worthless. Either you're attractive (both physically and personality) or you're not....Either you were already so attractive to begin with that it doesn't matter or you were already so unattractive to begin with no matter what you did, it was going to end poorly for you anyhow.
Do you think there's free will at all? Do you apply this thinking to other aspects of life, or just sexual dynamics? If it's all just innate and you can't change it, why try to change your circumstances or do anything?
...trying to focus on one thing like just don't text her in the morning isn't going to be it because there's no at that was going to be the make or break.
I'll just finish on, once again, I never said it was make or break, it's not a trick, and it's not something you need to focus on. All I said was that if you deny the initial silly request, it can help stop that particular chain of drama. You might run into other drama, you might handle that better or worse, the relationship might still end down the line...but saying no was still the right move. It's not about trying to trick her, it's about trying to keep a bit of control and not let chaos overrun the relationship.
If you want to discuss technicalities then you are correct so let me rephrase in a manner you'll understand.
You can't change your core personality over a few quick tricks of "games" a man plays. You can be aware of all these tricks/games and try to play them but this won't change your core personality no matter how good you get at faking it.
What I'm saying is when guys are talking on the internet and someone says "just don't text her good morning every morning and then she won't get like this" I can safety say that's not it. A man would need to change absolutely everything about his core personality not just a few tricks here or there like this...because that's what ultimately this is: a reflection of his personality.
Since your personality is already mostly set-in-stone, a much bigger factor is going to be looks holding all else constant.
If a good looking man doesn't text her good morning he has a much higher chance of success than a bad looking man who doesn't.
To summarize the point I'm making. Men playing games with women doesn't work. I've seen men do this all the time and it doesn't get men anywhere. 99% of the time the men play the games, the people see right through the games to the core of the man's personality. The woman has already decided if she finds the man attractive or not and what the man does at this stage has limited impact. That's why the advice of "just be yourself" isn't actually bad advice. Men don't like this advice because then men have to accept that they aren't truly in control of the women they can or cannot obtain but that's mostly true. Men have very limited impact on their ability to get women. A man's genetics are set when he's born and so is most of his life trajectory based on his parents and this will shape his overall attractiveness. You can't run away from who you are by playing some games with women on asserting texting dominance at the start of the relationship. You're either already attractive or you're not and these little games mean mostly nothing in the end.
A great example of this is PUA shit. These guys think all the stuff they say matters but it mostly doesn't. The woman has already decided if she is going to sleep with the guy or not no matter what he says. It's just a matter of don't say anything so bad she loses all interest despite already being interested. Like on tinder when guys with hot pics tell women they were in prison for pedophilia and the girls still want to meetup to fuck.
Yes, I agree you see bad looking men with good looking women so obviously certain things other than looks matter but really, it comes down to what the woman wants and each woman is slightly different. You can try to play games all you want but most men are simply getting lucky that they are what the woman wants rather than the man actively changing things to get what he wants. Most men have very limited influence on their ability to gain women or not. That's why you have men who literally have never thought to try to get women and they end up with any woman they want and you have high IQ smart men unable to get women no matter what they do. It's not that they lack the ability to problem solve the situation, it's that they lack the genetics and upbringing to get women which is ultimately the most important thing. What you say or don't say doesn't matter because if you had what it takes to get women through superior personality you'd already say what needs to be said without thinking about it. Guys trying to improve their chances by saying/doing the right thing aren't going to change who they really are so they aren't going to have any more or less success doing this stuff. If the guy ends up successful, he was already going to be successful regardless of what he thought he should say to certain things.
These "games" are worthless. Either you're attractive (both physically and personality) or you're not. The more attractive you are the more you can say whatever you want. The less attractive you are the more you have to say/do all the right things but if it doesn't come naturally, the more you're going to fuck up so trying to focus on one thing like just don't text her in the morning isn't going to be it because there's no at that was going to be the make or break. Either you were already so attractive to begin with that it doesn't matter or you were already so unattractive to begin with no matter what you did, it was going to end poorly for you anyhow.
A majority of things about someone are set in genetics from their parents. The idea that everyone is born a blank slate that can gym and work their way to success from absolutely nothing is simply not viable or realistic in all but the most extreme of examples. Of course, self-help gurus and coaches will treat you as a blank slate because the alternative won't make them money. People don't like to hear uncomfortable truths either but alas, reality, nature and evolution doesn't care about people's feelings.
People also tend to see an exception and assume that the rule is null and void. Of course under that logic, heterosexuality would be a myth! But we all know otherwise.
The only problem with saying that truth is that it just gives people a blank check to give up. "I was just born like this, no point trying!" Its just "my genetics made me fat" all over again.
So its not that its untrue, its that you can't do shit about it so why even bother thinking about it? Its literal brain rot to bog you down with to even give it a moment's thought, when you can instead be focusing on what you can change and improve.
I thought the truth was to start training to become a geneticist, Gattaca awaits! xD
The problem isn't self-improvement, it's advice that is unrealistic and any critique of it is handwaved away as a 'negative mindset'. Not everyone can be Elon Musk levels of rich and status by going to the gym and touching grass. It's a sad fact of life but life isn't fair, you can't change your genes and not everyone is going to succeed in life. The self-help gurus and coaches won't tell you that because it's kryptonite to their profitability.
I don't disagree, but telling people to reach for the stars knowing they will fail is infinitely better than telling them to not even try because they were born already a failure.
Just because predators take advantage of something doesn't make it a bad thing. It just means be mindful of fucking grifters trying to exploit you.
Yeah, it's one thing I really dislike about the modern blackpill men's movement. There's a lot of truth to what they say and, although they get some things wrong about women, they also get a lot right...but their conclusions are, at least in my opinion, totally wrong. And they focus on the wrong things, give up, and play the blame game. To use the more lefty word, some of it gets really toxic too. It's defeatist, it's jealous, it's just unpleasant.
Yup, this is the way. Also, although there is some truth in XYZ being set in stone...we have so many other things bogging us down too, especially in this modern world. Just because someone's personal foundation may not be perfect, doesn't mean they can't become a much better and more attractive person by getting rid of some of the utter trash sitting on the foundation. People have so many issues, many of which can be fixed, much of it even with relative ease.
Focusing on that you can't change some things about yourself or, per this topic, that there are plenty of unpleasant characteristics of women, doesn't get you anywhere, even if those things are true. As you said, it can be both true and completely unproductive or even destructive to focus on.
Its basic multiplication. A 10 from birth only needs to put in 2x the effort to be a 20, while a 2 from birth has to put in 10x. Which might not even be possible or probable to do, leaving him forever lower simply because of his starting hand.
But you can still get that multiplier up to something rather than just be a 2 wasting his life away in blackpilled misery.
Only societal destruction and rebuilding can allow the common man to get a woman. If women are allowed to make their own choice the rates of murder suicide and rape among men will only continue to grow.
The only way most men have to lose their virginity is engaging in prostitution.
It's not technicalities, it's commonplace. Again, yes, being hot is an advantage. Being ugly is a disadvantage. But it's not just fringe cases; attractive people fail on the regular, ugly people succeed on the regular.
And that's not necessary. I disagreed with you, but I didn't talk down to you.
Nope, and you shouldn't want to. Improve yourself, for yourself. There are tricks that make it more effective, but it really does have to be a genuine process.
That wasn't even what was said. What was said was, don't agree to her demand. In these instances agreeing just makes things worse. It's not a "trick," just say no to bullshit. Again, not a trick in the slightest. You're not trying to trick anything, or change yourself.
I think we're just coming at this from different angles. I'm not saying saying "no" is a magic cure-all. Just that in this hypothetical it would have been a good start. Perhaps the relationship would have still spiraled and ended. But agreeing to nonsense was a bad move regardless.
Your personality might be, but the "vibe" you give off doesn't have to be. Plenty of things can make you more or less attractive, beyond either your appearance or "personality." People think of confidence as related to personality, and it is, but it's also related to where you are in life. So even something as simple as a short run every day, or the classic "hitting the gym" can make you more attractive, even before and differences in physical appearance. Mental state is easier to change than overall personality, and does come through in many ways that other people can pick up on.
Again, it's not about the text. It's about handling extraneous bullshit.
It can. But, again, that wasn't even my point. I wasn't asking people to trick anyone, or play games. I'm saying set boundaries, don't give in just because an ask may be seemingly easy. Going along with bullshit also doesn't get you anywhere. You keep calling it games and tricks. Simply and legitimately saying "no, I don't want to do that" is not a game or a trick.
It is and it isn't. Yes, don't be fake. Don't do tricks. But work to improve yourself. Being "yourself" and accepting that that will dictate your entire life...that puts you completely out of control, and gives up any need to strive for anything. And even if it were true, it's a very traditionally male thing to try to overcome that anyway. Maybe you still lose, sure. But better to have tried. So, yes/no: Don't be yourself...be a better version of yourself.
I wish you'd stop calling them games, but I've already said that repeatedly. But look at it this way, then. If she's already decided how she feels about you, it also doesn't matter the other way. If what she's asking is stupid, and could lead to the spiral described in the video, head that off at the pass and just say you're not interested in that. If you're not attractive enough, she'll dump you anyway. If you are, she'll accept that, and you'll have one less potential relationship-destroying bit of drama floating around. Basically, pick a lane. Assert yourself, say no to bullshit. Or say yes to bullshit, but actually follow throw. Do everything she says. And I'm not even saying that derogatorily, that does work for some relationships. It's a little gross, but if it's a personality match, that's up to them. But agreeing to bullshit and then doing a half-assed job will legitimately have negative effects; the crazy lady in the video is actually right about that.
I hate the PUA stuff. But I'll again say this is a mix of truth and exaggeration. Changing or even just thinking about how you come at social situations will have an effect. In that sense PUA stuff can be helpful...irony is, most of the men who would benefit from it don't have the drive to put in the work to get the benefit from that either.
I'm calling bullshit, and I'm also saying this is defeatist and a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, some people have it easier than others. But some people put in the work to be able to be successful.
Do you think there's free will at all? Do you apply this thinking to other aspects of life, or just sexual dynamics? If it's all just innate and you can't change it, why try to change your circumstances or do anything?
I'll just finish on, once again, I never said it was make or break, it's not a trick, and it's not something you need to focus on. All I said was that if you deny the initial silly request, it can help stop that particular chain of drama. You might run into other drama, you might handle that better or worse, the relationship might still end down the line...but saying no was still the right move. It's not about trying to trick her, it's about trying to keep a bit of control and not let chaos overrun the relationship.