I realise that cultural differences will play a part, here, as will generational change, but I just spent the evening hanging out with my cousin’s friends, roughly 5 years younger than me, and this was the main topic of conversation…
How much they earn, for how little they actually work. How “easy” their work is. How they can afford shit like house deposits, shitty anime subscriptions, and drugs… Seriously, their main topic of conversation aside from “how much I make” was fucking drugs, and how much they hate various portions of humanity that aren’t like them…
Growing up, I was taught that this sort of shit is to be kept to yourself. Discussing salaries/earnings was a massive no-no, and don’t get me started on the drugs shit…
Especially around strangers, which I was, for most of them…
I just find it a wee bit sad that such “social norms” have become forgotten, in an era of sheer narcissism and braggadocio…
Then again, these people were also arseholes, and scumbag druggies no less, so selection bias is of course at play…
But I just find it jsrring, I guess, that something as simple as “You don’t ask, or discuss, salaries, unless it is relevant”, has fallen by the wayside, seemingly, amongst “hype”-obsessed zoomers these days…
If you don’t discuss how much you earn with your coworkers then I guarantee the management will be taking advantage of that.
Yes, I don't talk about how much I make with my general friends and family, but my coworkers and friends that also work in my industry? That only benefits management.
One of my friends found out by accident how much a coworker of his was making. They did the same job, but the friend had actually started after and was largely trained by the coworker. He was making significantly more than the more experienced coworker, like >30%. Underpaid coworker get's a beefy raise that never would have happened otherwise.
Worst case scenario you feel shitty because you find out you're the underpaid one, but that's to be mad at management about, not your coworker.
Discussing pay being good or bad depends on your worth and amount you're paid.
If you're the one doing 2x the work and getting paid 2x as much your coworkers are not going to say "oh he's getting paid the right amount for the work he's doing" - that's just wishful thinking - they demand equal pay or they resent you for getting paid more and sabotage your career. If you know your value and demand pay that you're worth then discussing salary only hurts you.
Same thing with stock options. If you have 10% ownership, 10% of their work is your work. It doesn't matter to them if you joined the company when it was 4 people and it was your years of working for peanuts and risk that even made their safe job possible, they'll resent you for reaping the rewards of that risk.
So ironically the more fair and reasonable your employer is the less you want to talk about salary, because fair, merit-based differences in salary always creates strife.
Yeah, everyone should be willing to discuss their salary/compensation. Could some feelings be hurt? Sure, but if you're being taken advantage of and underpaid, it's better to expose that and get your money even if it means the nut punch to the ego of learning you aren't respected and got stepped on.
Had to sign in to agree with you. 100% when I started a new job and getting to know coworkers was to make sure they didn't screw me in the pay department. The managerial class is sleazy and retarded at the same time, at my previous job, they would always have meetings and dine with each other, yet upper manage would never let the blue collar supervisors as much as exchanged phone numbers in case they needed each other help when a situation arose, and they are working for the same fucking company.
In my opinion, tone, intention, and context are important to consider when discussing salary. I find bragging about salary or a high salary-to-work ratio is in poor taste and can give you a lot of insight into someone's lack of character. However, professional salary discussions among colleagues with the goal of leveraging information to negotiate raises should be encouraged.
I think it's weird to discuss household budgets. And it will always be crass to volunteer how much you paid for a big ticket item, like a car or house.
It would be weird to talk salary with strangers, but I don't really see a problem with discussing salary among friends, as long as you have an idea what everyone does. You don't want to embarrass someone who makes less.
If you're in related fields, or work for the same company, discussing salary lets people gauge if they're being gipped or not.
That said, I share your sentiment of training for a culture that evaporated before I could participate in it.
While I agree with the other comments, the Internet has blurred the line between public face & real self. You spend all day pissing into a sea of piss, and then hose down your normie aunt when she tries to have a polite conversation. People forget their manners when they don't use them enough. Hard to blame people sometimes, nowadays. 90%+ of your communication is either passively reading/listening to assholes on the internet, or messaging your closest friends about whatever gross shit comes to mind.
A part of me doesn't mind talking about salary. It means being able to talk about expenses and problems more easily. In Seattle you often didn't know if you were talking with a homeless guy or a billionaire. You just had similar interests, and talked about that. So in that context I have no real problems.
But the drugs and using money as a power signifier is right out.
In my experience, people like this are just lying to gain social capital.
We used to get tons of new guys coming in to work who would brag about all their other jobs, how much more they made, how easy it was (usually to get everyone else to slack off with them).
So you ask them "Why don't you go back to work there?" and that's the end of the discussion, lol.
What's funny is how everyone wants the government out of their bedroom but doesn't mind them poking around in their wallets.
Communists normalized it over the last couple decades as a negotiating tactic.
There are no "universal" social norms, just people you want to associate with and people you don't.
So: just bragging.
It's low class to brag, but at least it's informative in this case. What jobs do they have with easy money and little work? Some computer shit, right?
So: redditors.
Idk who taught you that. The only person who benefits from that mentality is the employer. Maybe BRAGGING is seen as rude and low class, but discussing salaries, especially with coworkers, serves a useful function.
Ah, the affable non-conformist.
I, for one, want 'the poors' to grok the magnitude of how little they make. There's a slightly greater chance they'd learn to individually and collectively negotiate, not vote for pro-dependency politicians, denationalize currency, and halt non-vetted immigration. The traditional taboo against talking salary was manufactured far beyond not being a blowhard or ruining parties. Conversely, not sharing specifics about earnings makes sense when volunteering such information can be used against you, as many lottery winners have found out.
You probably would with people that you consider your close peers. With strangers that would be odd.
But I mean they're also telling you about their drugs. You always tell people about drugs and how much you paid for them. Otherwise, people would have a hard time finding drugs lol if other people were (even more) secretive about it.
Why not? This always seemed liked one of those rules that just existed to be nice to your failure acquaintances who are making well below what they should.
I'm younger by quite a bit, but feel the same way.