Whenever the topic turns to Ukraine vs Russia, I have noticed some people coming out of woodwork to assert that Russia is corrupted country. Now I will give you that Putin is a dictator as he has been a president for a long ass time and probably ordering his subordinates to kill his political dissidents but is there a lockdown and arrest of citizens? I want to know actually as the propaganda's everywhere that exaggerates a lot of things.
I want to also ask hypothetical question, if countries like Russia, China, Canada and Britain offered people temporary asylum and actually made effort to accommodate them for not understanding their own language, what country normies will choose, I wonder?
And as for me, you probably know what I will choose.
Yeah, I'm with you. There's different levels of corruption.
No one my age has ever bribed a cop, some have even tried and been rejected. That's actually abnormal around the world. Typically, the cops, and even basic level bureaucrats require bribes to do anything. It's completely normal to bribe bureaucrats, administrators, and cops for everything.
The closest the US has to that level of corruption was a long time ago. I have much older family that remembers living in a Democrat city and running a small business on waterfront property. They payed high taxes and licensing fees to operate in a commercial district with strong police protection. But they also had to pay the mob for their protection racket... but they also had to bribe the police when they were around to pay for the cops to promise to show up. Here's the grift for the cops: they were being paid their salary, taking protection money from the businesses, and they were also being bought out by the fucking mob!. Motherfuckers were triple-dipping!
If you didn't pay the government, you couldn't operate the business.
If you didn't pay the cops, they wouldn't show up.
If you did both, but didn't pay the mob, they'd ignore any damage or actions taken against you by the mob, because the mob was paying both of them!
We don't typically see that kind of just open corruption anymore. No one's going to literally stick their hand out and cough.
Absolutely correct. That is the purpose of many of these regulations. To actually funnel money though specific systems so that it can be maintained in a professional corruption system of lobbyists and 'non-profits'. It's a corruption-industrial complex.
You would have more accountability to politicians if you said: "There is only one rule: you can't accept money in any way except your salary and personal donations from direct constituents". They'd actually be held accountable. The system we have is regulated to promote anonymity of foreign donors and restrict donations from constituents. That's why private donations to politicians are capped at $2,500 and you have to give up your name, address, phone number, and employer. Meanwhile, unlimited corporate donations to super-pacs that never officially touch the candidate are just fine, and no information is recorded.
I suspected that word was just a throwaway word to condemn countries that they don't like and I know journos in the press have been doing fantastic job of smearing their political opponents
And it's no secret US has been having incompetent leadership. For all his faults, I guess Trump really seemed to steer US to better economy but globohomo cannot have their plan wrecked by some wildcard. I haven't mentioned it but I do think US is more corrupted than Russia giving their citizens illusions that their votes matter but I think now a lot of people woke up to the fact.
I will give you that, his social policies were garbage but his economic plan was sound. The fact that he didn't start any war is a big glowing point.
Orange man never had any anti gay rhetoric though, as much as I would have liked it, so I'm not sure that is the best example.
There certainly is truth to the statement "all countries are corrupt" but the US in particular is less centralized, and the corruption you face in Russia is routine in that you have to bribe police/bureaucrats to get anything done. As such, if you are poor in these countries it is very hard to get ahead in any way as you can't afford the bribes necessary. Even if you pay them you can get taken over against your will, as Pavel found out with VK.
Based on the news every person should (must) believe that Putin is a tyrannical insane dictator where his people are at the same time inhuman monsters that defend him and poor victims that are ruled over by his satanical iron fist, you should believe this (or else)
Every time a general says something that doesn't portray this they get quickly dismissed with timers (though they do keep inviting them back).
Every time someone portrays him as insane though, oh boy they will have all the time in the world.
All russian actions are warcrimes. All russian oligarchs are evil. All russians are complicit.
You will accept this as this is the story everyone is fed and if you don't you will be ostracized...... At least that is what the news wants.
But doors can be closed and not all walls have ears
The important and frightening thing is your last statement "All Russians are complicit".
It troubles me greatly, as there are many good and normal Russian men who don't want to fight in this insane war who must flee. In a just world they would be given the same asylum considerations as the supposed "Syrians" who fled.
Seeing folks here cheer on the Russian military as it sends men into a meat grinder is insane to me. It was a bad strategy in "The great patriotic war" and its a bad strategy now, but the only strategy they know.
They want people to believe russian are victims to damn putin.
That russians are complicit to permit extending the war and generally hurting russians instead of it's leadership.
That putin is insane so that people don't think about anything that is happening
That all russian oligarchs are evil to justify stealing their foreign assets.
And that all actions are war crimes to keep the war relevant and justify ever worsening measures.
Just ignore the severe economical effects of poorly thought out sanctions and blatant throwing of money and just blame the russians....not the idiots who created the actual problems in countrie that have nothing to do with the actual conflict.
Don't think about how the actor extends a war for his american masters and blame the russians for everything.
At the end of the day Ukrainian and Russian people are suffering for a war that shouldn't have started, shouldn't be continued and will be a pain to end. How many Ukrainians really support Zelensky's meat grinder of a defense over making a costly occupation, or even how many even care who lords over them ? How many Russians really want to invade their neighbours ? How many Europeans want economical collapse from retarded sanctions ? And how many Americans want to extend the war on foreign soil ?
Ignore that cause an insane man is invading a country that didn't do nothing, the evil devil is invading the poor humans and only the saintly europeans under the will of godly america can save us from damnation.
Such a grand story sold to people by lies and mass communication.
If anyone is perceived to be cheering on the Russian military it's likely because Ukraine is effectively a globohomo money laundering scheme right now. It doesnt make the war good or just but it gives plenty of reason to wish for Russia's success.
Also, unlike the average normie, the average user on this board is probably aware of the coup the US instigated in Ukraine in 2014, so regardless of anyone's opinions on Russia or Putin, it makes one more hesitant to follow the "the one who invades automatically must be the bad guy" lazy line of reasoning."
Add in extra stuff like US funded biolabs in Ukraine and Russia pushing back against certain toxic globohomo agendas and it shouldn't be hard to see why people here might root for them.
Well, just as the US found out in the middle east, when you blow up people's homes and family they will stop at nothing to kill you. Invasion isn't just bad, it's dumb. But more importantly the people who are suffering are average Ukrainian and Russian men caught in the middle.
Yeah you're not wrong there. Hopefully it ends much faster than nightmares like Iraq/Afghanistan for the US.
Amen
Not all that different from US. I know Russia's been in war with Ukraine for long but has it been to war with other countries last 30 years making up insane excuse to start war? US has been picking fights with other countries for long long time even before I was alive, I bet.
The difference is the US doesn't (yet) have a draft.
By that same token South Korea is almost as corrupt since it's mandatory for male to get drafted to receive military training. Actually I find Korea to be worse as they openly brainwash children from young age to be patriotic and exaggerate the cruelty of certain enemy country.
And by the fact that there was no response to the question has Russia started any war other than Ukraine, I'm going to guess Russia is relatively stable.
Any other war? Like Georgia? Or Moldova?
South Korea certainly has a draft, but not a "hot" conflict. It's really both that cause an issue. I haven't seen the hatred you speak of in Korea, quite the opposite in fact with many wanting some form of reconciliation. Maybe you meant north Korea?
"Stability" is an interesting concept for Russia. It is stable, to a point, but as you noted all rivals have been killed. This means the eventual transition to new leadership is likely to be catastrophically bloody.
Well as Korean, I will tell you their anti-japan message is even in books for kids. To this day, there are people that still bitch about imperial flags.
I guess any countries with strong military want to flaunt their strength. Russian military is nowadays probably better than america, so they muscle and strongarm weaker countries to throw their weight around.
Ah, yes the anti Japan sentiment there is very high indeed. You are right there.
But Russian military being better than the US? I mean, even the US thought they would steamroll Ukraine and that hasn't happened. They are losing to a literal clown president, an impressive feat. The real issue with their military is that no bad news is allowed, and any top brass that tries gets replaced. It's a recipe for (continued) military failure, even against clown trannies.
Russians die ten years younger than westerners do, so something is obviously amiss. Maybe it's all the rampant alcoholism.
Whatever Russia's problems, though, it is less clear to me why the common person should really care about the corruption of Russia's elites. The elite are corrupt no matter where in the world you are - that's WHY they're the elite. Honesty doesn't get you to the top, never has, never will.
Elites in the west simply have different methods of dressing up their corruption.
One thing I can say about Russia is that they do right on degeneracy - they leave it in grey areas of ill-defined law that, in practice, means it's technically legal to be a degenerate so long as you aren't drawing huge amounts of attention to yourself.
You have the freedom to be a faggot - just don't be a faggot about it.
Most westerners have no concept of Russia, its culture, language, or historical significance and just kind of regurgitate what they've heard. This is true of both the left and the right, with the left thinking its a pariah and the right thinking its some sort of savior.
The truth is more in the middle, specifically with regards to corruption it is much more direct than most westerners are used to. That being direct bribes to police and bureaucrats (think DMV) are routine business, most paychecks come under the table, and if you do manage to climb the ladder somehow you will be crushed.
I lived there a few years and have many positive things to say about the people and the culture, but it remains an awful and oppressive place to live and work especially if you are any race but Russian. Despite the flaws of the West, it is still much friendlier to commerce than China or Russia (especially to outsiders) and until that changes the West will always be the destination country of normies and everyone else wanting to earn a living. It is as simple as being able to put food on the table.
Russia doesn't have buttsex parades therefore I support them.
We are to the point where nothing else is relevant.
Yes. Because it is.
Welcome to Eastern Europe... now give me your money.
ಠ_ಠ
This was a very colorful and descriptive comment.
I honestly think it's less corrupt than most western countries at this point. Not that there is zero corruption, but from what I've seen, Putin seems at the very least to have the general welfare of his country and culture as a priority, which seems to be completely absent in the west nowadays outside of a few leaders like Trump or that female Italian pm or Victor whatshisface in Hungry/Czechsmix/whateverthatplaceiscalled
They say you can judge a man by his enemies. Putin might not be Mr Rogers, but his enemies are globalist scum like Schwab, Soros, Biden, Zelensky, Macron, Trudeau, Arden, etc. who are actively and deliberately destroying the economies and cultures of their countries for their own personal gain. Compared to them, Putin might as well be Jesus himself.
Ah yes, Putin the enemy of Schwab(his good friend at least officially, in Putin's own words, not to mention that he was with the WEF prior to 2022 at least) and Macron(the only EU country president that actually agreed to meet him in person during COVID with as much paranoid anti-covid measures that managed Putin came up with, including the ridiculously long table).
Putin' ain't the richest man in the world for nothing.
The reason I think I lean toward liking Putin might just be the fact he seems more competent compared to all these jokers in the anglo-countries sucking up to WEF. Most of all, I haven't heard of Russia begging for money like other countries do.
For as much as the media, and what we've been told about "Russia Bad" I believe that Putin and Russia are more good as time goes on. What's up is down and vice versa.
When normies and red pillars alike agree and say Hitler was bad just know it's likely the opposite.
There's no answer that won't result in a response of "you're just an X shill", so I've just stopped giving a fuck. I just wish my country would stop funneling money into the country in an obvious laundering scheme.
The greatest irony is that while Russia is a corrupted shithole, as if every Western country isn't also corrupted beyond repair.
Way to go, governments of the world, you just did actions which would be considered normal in North Korea, now the only option is to remove you all from office and ideally remove your heads while we're at it.
What have we learned about half measures?
Finding freedom and what's best for you from a nation is a mistake. Be a part of your local community and help shape it to the point where you can collectively ignore and keep out what you hate and all agree to abide by it. Find that balance between prosperity and not being so prosperous that murdering goons decide to march on you, no matter what flag is on their shoulder.
The country (along with Belarus and Ukraine) has had too much brain drain to be redeemable. Maybe if there was a break away state some part of Siberia to enact Atlas Shrugged. Despite inertia of repression, the rest of Eastern Europe has potential to a relative haven before the West collapses, but NATO/EU really has them underneath their thumb.
to answer the thread title as someone who knows very little about Russia: I get the feeling the govt at large largly ignores the populace, for good or for ill. Political intrigue is in the govt, and the normal person doesn't care because it really doesn't effect them. But the down side is that the country is like a colder wild west, but with track suits and vans, rather than cowboy boots and horses.
Whilst I oppose US and EU intervention in the Ukraine conflict, I am under no illusion that Russia is as corrupt AF. If the USA is as corrupt as it is, how much more a former communist regime?
All you have to do is look at the power of the crime syndicates in Russia.
Russia is is a corrupted shithole. The anti-woke rhetoric is just a smokescreen, throwing some crumbs to the populace to distract them from the fact that their #1 enemy is the corrupt mafia state they call a government.
100% absolutely correct. But don't get me wrong, fuck Ukraine. But as long as Stalinist Putin is in charge of Russia, they will always be a shithole. Putin is whats wrong witn russia. He's also a censorship fanatic, just like Winnie the pooh. Commie scum.
Ironic enough, these uncorrupted countries all issued vaccine mandate while some corrupted shitholes gave people choices. Fucking clown world.
But the man was a former KGB. I'm sure he dirtied his hands not too long ago but he's more competent in leadership than any windbags in anglo-countries
This here is why I don't even see the point of who to side with in this war. They ask you billions in aid not millions to give it to aid Ukraine regime, that much amount could have done a lot of good internally.