The problem is that there actually are people who think that 14-year-olds raped by their brothers should be forced to give birth (and I'm sure there are some people who are now preparing their THE BABY IS INNOCENT retort).
Of course the pro-choice side is going to dishonestly spin that to push its agenda. I'm pro-choice myself, so it's not about tribalism for me, but the dishonesty of my side is truly incredible. I literally never see them make a good argument.
I don’t want to jump in and be the straw man, but I’ll bite:
The baby is innocent. One crime does not allow another to be committed. Abortion is fundamentally murder, and it’s becoming more and more the “leftists” version of the Eucharist, but a satanic inversion of it (where the Eucharist is “this is my body, given up for you” abortion is “this is your body, given up for me”).
Abortion is a deep, deep societal evil and its acceptance is one of the reasons why we have many problems. When life can be denied for convenience, dressed up as healthcare, it’s no wonder we have issues.
Cuck logic. A man who rapes you is your enemy, and willingly propagating your enemy’s genetic line is dysgenic nonsense.
You can also think of it in terms of self-defense. If someone attempts to murder me, I am not committing a crime when I prevent my own murder at their hands - even if it means killing that person. Likewise, the person responsible for the abortion of a rape baby is the rapist. The woman is simply defending herself and her generic line from a violent and unwanted incursion.
If we're doing analogies it's closer to your enemy sending a child with a suicide vest to your house, and to survive you have to kill not the enemy but that child. Also it turned out it was your child. Most people would assign responsibility to the person who strapped the bomb on the kid so this aligns with what you said.
As far as cuck logic goes I'm not sure that can apply to females. Yeah if your wife is raped and you insist she carry, you're leaning towards cuckdom.
I actually agree with you. Rapist genes should be purged. The baby is innocent, yes, but it's also actively harmful by simply existing. It harms the mother and father by being a constant reminder of the rape, and it harms society by propagating low IQ a low IQ rapist's bloodline. It even harms itself by having to live with the fact that it's a rape baby.
Besides, if you're a Christian you believe that babies go to heaven anyway. Unless you're one of the more hardcore branches, in which case it goes to purgatory, then heaven. Which is still pretty good.
Which of course only applies in these cases, and not, for example, when women say men under 6 foot should all kill themselves. Despite that being a much better way to improve our own countries genetic lines.
Let's say that you're absolutely correct about everything. Even from your own POV, making that argument is a political loser, because it enables the kind of strawmen that the pro-choice fanatics use to oppose any restrictions on abortion.
If I accepted that there is a 'baby' from the moment of conception, I may agree to ban abortions for convenience, but obviously, a rape victim did not ask to get pregnant. It's an act of wanton cruelty to force such a thing on that victim, based on what is ultimately a philosophical matter that cannot be proven one way or the other.
The effectiveness of an argument is measured by the extent to which it moves people towards your side. Obviously, if you make an argument that repels people, no matter how logically valid it is or you think it is, that "negates its effectiveness".
There are no prizes for being morally correct, though I wouldn't argue that people who want to ban abortion in cases of rape are moral.
Arguments are only relevant to debate among a people with a shared cultural framework, and culture is downstream from law. Progressives have been winning for many decades now by simply imposing their will and the populace accepts it later. This is a war.
The only debate the average normie should see is between ourguy and a carefully selected crazy progressive shouting about how much fun it is to murder babies. It's cruel that the average person is currently burdened with constant anxiety over complex geopolitical events and philosophical questions far beyond them, when they should be almost entirely focused on the concerns of their daily lives and families.
I think it makes more sense to say culture is downstream from power. Culture includes the application of and (non-)acquiescence to law. Enshrining laws is important but only temporary if you don't seize and hold power. For the forces in power, the law is what they say it is. (hmm, I suppose if that means law=power then never mind)
This has nothing to do with what you said, just something I thought about the other day.
An exception for muh rape will just enable even more fraudulent accusations. Women already make shit up all the time, just for attention or money. Imagine throwing a kid in there as another motivation. Everyone will be an accused rapist.
The problem is that there actually are people who think that 14-year-olds raped by their brothers should be forced to give birth (and I'm sure there are some people who are now preparing their THE BABY IS INNOCENT retort).
Of course the pro-choice side is going to dishonestly spin that to push its agenda. I'm pro-choice myself, so it's not about tribalism for me, but the dishonesty of my side is truly incredible. I literally never see them make a good argument.
I don’t want to jump in and be the straw man, but I’ll bite:
The baby is innocent. One crime does not allow another to be committed. Abortion is fundamentally murder, and it’s becoming more and more the “leftists” version of the Eucharist, but a satanic inversion of it (where the Eucharist is “this is my body, given up for you” abortion is “this is your body, given up for me”).
Abortion is a deep, deep societal evil and its acceptance is one of the reasons why we have many problems. When life can be denied for convenience, dressed up as healthcare, it’s no wonder we have issues.
Cuck logic. A man who rapes you is your enemy, and willingly propagating your enemy’s genetic line is dysgenic nonsense.
You can also think of it in terms of self-defense. If someone attempts to murder me, I am not committing a crime when I prevent my own murder at their hands - even if it means killing that person. Likewise, the person responsible for the abortion of a rape baby is the rapist. The woman is simply defending herself and her generic line from a violent and unwanted incursion.
If we're doing analogies it's closer to your enemy sending a child with a suicide vest to your house, and to survive you have to kill not the enemy but that child. Also it turned out it was your child. Most people would assign responsibility to the person who strapped the bomb on the kid so this aligns with what you said.
As far as cuck logic goes I'm not sure that can apply to females. Yeah if your wife is raped and you insist she carry, you're leaning towards cuckdom.
I actually agree with you. Rapist genes should be purged. The baby is innocent, yes, but it's also actively harmful by simply existing. It harms the mother and father by being a constant reminder of the rape, and it harms society by propagating low IQ a low IQ rapist's bloodline. It even harms itself by having to live with the fact that it's a rape baby.
Besides, if you're a Christian you believe that babies go to heaven anyway. Unless you're one of the more hardcore branches, in which case it goes to purgatory, then heaven. Which is still pretty good.
Ah yes, evolutionary genetic logic.
Which of course only applies in these cases, and not, for example, when women say men under 6 foot should all kill themselves. Despite that being a much better way to improve our own countries genetic lines.
The manlets are downvoting you but I agree my fellow southerner
Let's say that you're absolutely correct about everything. Even from your own POV, making that argument is a political loser, because it enables the kind of strawmen that the pro-choice fanatics use to oppose any restrictions on abortion.
If I accepted that there is a 'baby' from the moment of conception, I may agree to ban abortions for convenience, but obviously, a rape victim did not ask to get pregnant. It's an act of wanton cruelty to force such a thing on that victim, based on what is ultimately a philosophical matter that cannot be proven one way or the other.
The effectiveness of an argument is measured by the extent to which it moves people towards your side. Obviously, if you make an argument that repels people, no matter how logically valid it is or you think it is, that "negates its effectiveness".
There are no prizes for being morally correct, though I wouldn't argue that people who want to ban abortion in cases of rape are moral.
Arguments are only relevant to debate among a people with a shared cultural framework, and culture is downstream from law. Progressives have been winning for many decades now by simply imposing their will and the populace accepts it later. This is a war.
The only debate the average normie should see is between ourguy and a carefully selected crazy progressive shouting about how much fun it is to murder babies. It's cruel that the average person is currently burdened with constant anxiety over complex geopolitical events and philosophical questions far beyond them, when they should be almost entirely focused on the concerns of their daily lives and families.
I think it makes more sense to say culture is downstream from power. Culture includes the application of and (non-)acquiescence to law. Enshrining laws is important but only temporary if you don't seize and hold power. For the forces in power, the law is what they say it is. (hmm, I suppose if that means law=power then never mind)
This has nothing to do with what you said, just something I thought about the other day.
An exception for muh rape will just enable even more fraudulent accusations. Women already make shit up all the time, just for attention or money. Imagine throwing a kid in there as another motivation. Everyone will be an accused rapist.
I can think of good arguments, I just never see the looney tunes make them.
It's always "women have the right to control their own body". The fetus obviously isn't your "own body".