It really has very little to do with men "being owed sex" by women. Most men don't really believe they're owed sex by women, or anyone for that matter. The big issue is that society has placed such an emphasis on premarital sex and random hookups and casual sex that young men are beginning to feel like if they aren't having sex they are missing out on an integral part of life, which is not the case.
Sure, there are definitely men out there who truly believe that women are simply there to please them and be their slaves, but that is not the case for the vast majority of men, even so-called incels. They have simply been led to believe that sex is an amazing, huge part of life, that it is integral to a normal life and, while it is important to a healthy relationship, it's not necessary to live a normal life.
It also comes back, in a way, to the destruction of traditional masculinity. If they can convince millions of men that sex is the only thing that matters, that it is the most important part of a relationship and of life, then that's all they're going to care about. They're not going to focus on other things such as learning new skills or trade or bettering themselves in some other way.
Of course, the funny part of all this is that by convincing men that sex is the only thing that matters, they are completely reducing women to only being important in a sexual way. Although, I suppose that's part of the plan too. After all, we can't have women being motherly figures or caring individuals in a household or in life in general. We have to have them choose careers that debase them and destroy their mental well-being. It really is all connected I guess. The destruction of the family unit, the destruction of traditional masculinity, the destruction of traditional femininity, the sexualization of children... It really does circle back to the destruction of traditional values in a way that lets them swoop in and replace traditional morality with some sort of perverted new age "progressive" morality.
Anyway, that's my $0.02
Do you think that ties in to the whole “nice guy” thing that you hear women rage about? I remember endless articles telling men that being nice doesn’t mean a woman owes you sex and talked about how manipulative nice guys are. Although it’s confusing because the attractive guy who gets in a woman’s pants and then leaves can be manipulative too but they don’t seem to complain about that.
But good post. Makes a lot of sense
I personally think the whole "nice guy" thing is a two-fold issue. For example, women have been taught that if a guy is excessively nice to her or good to her that he's after something (sex is what they're told), to not trust him. The other side of the coin, is that guys have been told being nice to women doesn't mean they owe you something. But it's nature for a guy to be nice to a woman that he's interested in, which would, hopefully and traditionally, result in a relationship of some sort. That's the basis of courting and courtship in human beings. The problem, once again, is that we're taught that sex is what most people desire. It's really not what most people desire. What most people desire is a meaningful relationship of some sort, companionship.
Now, if you throw in guys actually listening to the advice women are given about nice guys only wanting sex from them, you end up with men who truly believe that, "Hey if I do want sex from this woman I just need to be nice to her" or "If I'm being nice to her that means I secretly desire to have sex with her." It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It used to be that the "thing" men wanted from women for being nice to them was relationship. Like I said before, that's the end goal of courtship, which is ultimately two people being nice to each other because they're interested in each other. It's usually started by one person, the man.
In high school I remember being so confused because women would pound into my head that women liked nice guys but then I’d see the same women date a guy who was the opposite of what she claimed she wanted. But you broke it down very well.
Yep. When you've been taught that all nice guys are creeps who just want to get into your pants, suddenly the guys that are jerks to you come across as the ones who are genuine and sincere and not weirdos.
It's more that they find assholes attractive regardless of what they say. But nice guy vs asshole is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. It's whether the guy has the genetics to be in the Chad zone that's really important. Personality only matters on the margins. Men have been sold a false bill of goods in that respect.
I purposefully treat women I am not interested in like they are men so I can avoid the bullshit of you're nice to me so you must be flirting
I think the "nice guy" grew out of a surface-level observation the mess that dating culture had turned into and trying to make sense of it all.
"Why is she going out with that violent criminal? I'm a nice guy. He just makes her cry and I would treat her well."
What the surface-level observation won't tell you is that pornography -- which is now celebrating it's victory for over 30 years from any kind of restraint from exposure to children and has used the opportunity to drop the facade and transition from nude pinups into completely depraved hedonistic hardcore explicitness -- teaches young girls that the bad boys are exciting, they'll give her what her body craves, and that emotions don't matter in coupling.
She's not skipping over the nice guy because the nice guy is a bad mate, she's skipping over the nice guy because she's been sold a lie that the destructive one is better.
This is akin to fast food. Kids will never ask their parents for real, traditional and nutritious food. They'll ask for what was advertised to them, so juiced up in processing and unnatural flavors that the real thing doesn't stand a chance.
Oh, and, before this is treated as some anti-woman whatever, in all of this, the PUA guys who take advantage of this to get their dicks wet also bare responsibility. An explicitly sexualized society may have cracked open the shells, but these guys are using these cracks to rip open the whole thing. Destroying other people for your 15 seconds of bliss is peak evil.
This is retarded. Women aren’t attracted to bad boys because porn told them to be attracted to bad boys. Women are attracted to bad boys because they signal tons of fitness traits in the forms of targeted violence and alpha behavior. These things are happening in a woman’s lizard brain, so she isn’t making any conscious decision. She’s just getting wet for sociopaths because that’s how lots of women are wired.
The problem is listening to what women say that instead of watching what they do. If they actually wanted a nice guy there wouldn't be an entire sub on the pedo site dedicated to mocking them.
True. The sexual dimorphism of humans means we fulfill different roles. Men are the protectors and providers, evolving to be bigger, stronger, and more logical, who do the dangerous tasks far from home and tribe. Women are the mothers and homemakers, evolving wider hips, breasts, more empathetic and emotional, who do the safer tasks close to home and tribe, like raising and feeding the children and taking care of the home. This is the entire basis for marriage. One man and one woman come together to form a complete human that can perpetuate the species. Both sides benefit from the contract, exchanging favors through their evolved role. The man gets exclusive breeding rights from the woman, ensuring his line will live on, and the woman gets exclusive rights to the man's protection and provision.
Since women and children are weaker than men, and women are especially vulnerable during pregnancy, men became the disposable sex, especially in conjunction with our role. We see this everywhere in society, even modern warped society, where men are still expected to drown on a sinking ship if there aren't enough life boats for everyone. "Women and children first."
In any case, this explains what each sex seeks in the opposite sex. Men pursue attractive women with wide hips and large breasts, prioritizing beauty and youth, which ensures greater success of many and healthy children. Women pursue strong and wealthy men, which ensures greater success of being protected and provided for, for herself and her children. "Nice" never enters the equation. However, most normal people will naturally be kind to the one they wish to marry and have children with. Still, modern society has warped what it means to be nice, especially with men, who are increasingly feminized and attacked, and masculinity demonized. Masculine "nice" is not the same as feminine "nice".
Men, as a matter of our nature, prioritize truth and logic first, as a means of better fulfilling our role and surviving. Women, as matter of their role, prioritize life, empathy, and emotion first, as a means of better fulfilling their role, so they, and especially their children, can better survive. As a philosophical point, truth must hold higher priority than life. This is why all groups of humans, regardless of size or pursuit, will naturally become patriarchal, as men are the ones most capable of upholding the proper priorities. Only through globalist propaganda and top down control can this be warped, for the benefit of the globalists, and to our detriment. It's a tool used to weaken and control us. Women can be swayed with logical fallacies, especially appeals to emotion, popularity, and authority, which globalists always use to sway "public opinion". This explains the voting demographics by sex.
Modern "nice" being taught to men is having all of warped degenerate society, and women, walking all over us and using us, as little more than slaves, having government and globalism replace our role, attack masculinity, and attack men, while simultaneously they take up the role of protector and provider for modern corrupted women, but yet in a modern relationship, often childless and meaningless, the man must still make more money than the woman and be the traditional protector and provider, and yet, all men must somehow be okay with this, because we're supposed to be "nice". This is one of the main reasons why modern women have become so picky in the dating markets. How can any one man compete with tyrannical government and globalism?
Modern globalist society isn't just degenerate, it's completely opposite of the natural order, antithetical to our entire evolved nature and the true philosophical foundations of what it means to succeed, survive, and thrive. This is why every aspect of modern globalist society is crumbling and destroying itself. Lies cannot persist forever.
Women decide if a nice guy is “creepy” or not based on whether they want to fuck him or not. That’s it. Everything else is window dressing.
Sadly I didn’t learn this til my early 20s
The "nice guy" phenomena is just women being terrible at understanding -- or living in denial of -- their own nature.
Women never wanted a "nice guy". Women want men that they respect and admire, who take control and take responsibility, who can protect and provide. Even so, women have trouble admitting this because it makes them look bad in the eyes of modern feminist society, and looking bad to others is the worst thing from a woman's perspective. This is why women tend to be conformists and follow the culture much more obediently than men do.
That’s true and I used to be very shy with women. Although I generally have seen young girls go wild for the bad boy and then in their 30s want a responsible guy. Although by then they usually have kids
I think young women see most of the qualities they value in a “bad guy” and are driven by their natural impulses without actually having the ability to judge good character, or having the wisdom to understand the hazard of giving yourself to someone of bad character.
We’re talking about natural impulses here… but for most human civilizations throughput history, women’s partners — and sometimes men’s as well — were determined by their parents or by another third party. This used the wisdom of adults to filter out the bad eggs ahead of time. The truth is, young women are absolutely terrible at picking the right partners. Men too, to some degree, but men don’t have anywhere near the number of options that women do at that age, so it’s less of an issue.
It's not so much that they want to the responsible guy. It's that by then they've finally figured out that Chad will never commit and they need someone to pay for all their bad decisions. MGTOW is such a threat to them because it raises the spectre that they'll be deprived of their meal ticket and they'll actually have to face the consequences of their actions.
It’s not that either. Slutty women “settle down” in their 30s because high value men no longer want to fuck them. That’s it. If an 8 could stay an 8 forever, she’d never get off the cock carousel.
Now a slurry.m woman might see her expulsion coming and take steps to secure her landing years before the wall, but that doesn’t mean she had a genuine change of heart. She was just quitting before the dating market fired her.
Well, to be fair, you wouldn't mind about a very hot girl trying to get in your pants, but if it were a 400 pound Jabba the Hutt/Trigglypuff-kind creature, you'd do your best to run faster than she can roll.
I get that but I’ve seen “chads” use the same tactics that they cry about the nice guys using. Of course it comes down to looks. Like a hot guy telling a woman she looks great and an ugly guy who says it turns into a creep
Right, but I mean that it's not unjustified. You'd be freaked out out of your mind if a hideous fat woman was hitting on you in a forward manner, but not so if it's a drop-dead gorgeous woman.
True but the fat woman isn’t creepy. I remember my female cousin once said a creepy guy was trying to talk to her and I asked was he really creepy or was he just a guy you didn’t find attractive. She admitted that she wasn’t attracted to him. Like you said I’d do the same but I hope I wouldn’t see the fat woman as a creep.