I have never found arguments against abortion by pro-lifers to be terribly persuasive.
Are facts not persuasive for you?
It's a scientific fact that life begins at conception.
Government's proper role is to secure rights ("That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...")
The 5th Amendment is clear: ("nor shall any person... be deprived of life ... without due process of law")
The right to life is the most fundamental right we have. Without it, no other right matters.
Seriously, I have no clue what's not persuasive about any of that, unless you're a liberal and facts/evidence/logic/reason don't matter compared to your feelings.
Edit: oh yeah, babies are being genocided. Even that should fulfill the feelings requirement. Like, do you even have a soul?
I think abortion is 100% morally wrong. I find it repugnant and think I would be very hard pressed to ever consider an abortion if I were a woman. Perhaps in the case of a severely disabled child.
I support the death penalty. I support lethal self defense. Obviously very different from abortion, but I believe the state should have limited power to end life.
I support in an all cases, at all times, abortion if the mother's life is in peril or if the child was the product of rape or rapeincest. I support at all times abortion if the child would be born severely disabled.
The vast majority of abortions are to young teens/twenties and very poor females. In some, but certainly not all, of these cases, a child is a huge economic drain on a woman or family, and there's a high rate of child neglect and abuse in these situations at all. Bottom line here, if someone doesn't want a child, there's a high frequency of the mother perpetuating the same shitty life situations to the next generation.
I also anti-population growth. From a practical standpoint, I think the country is better off with the extremely poor having a lower birth rate. I think the extremely poor are better off having a lower birth rate.
I would set a cut off point..14-15 weeks. No abortion after that (except rape/incest/life in peril). That covers like 95% of abortions anyway.
Do I have a soul? Who knows. I do know that I find abortion morally repugnant but I am willing to concede there are some situations where it may be a net positive.
I am enthusiastic about this court decision (though I am somewhat nervous about electoral blowback).
So, the rest of abortion should be okay because of the <0.5% of cases? You call that slight of hand persuasive? What if there's an allowance for rape/incest/life of mother like is allowed pretty much anywhere?
You're using an emotional, straw-man argument to justify baby murder.
So, the rest of abortion should be okay because of the <0.5% of cases?
Nope, that certainly does not follow. But if someone says that "abortion should be prohibited in all cases", then surely I get to point out that this is not good, at least in my opinion.
What if there's an allowance for rape/incest/life of mother like is allowed pretty much anywhere?
Then I would not call the position morally bankrupt.
You're using an emotional, straw-man argument to justify baby murder.
If the guy calls me 'morally bankrupt' for supporting first-trimester abortions, then surely I get to call him the same for supporting inflicting such massive trauma on some poor 12-year-old girl. Fair is fair.
For those who are remotely sensible, yes. Up to about 20 weeks or so.
Unfortunately, I have also encountered some truly deranged people, who think that it should be allowed up to the point of birth. And when you disagree with that, they (ironically) act like you have committed a murder, saying that "women don't have an abortion for fun, it should be up to them, blah blah blah".
I have never found arguments against abortion by pro-lifers to be terribly persuasive.
This, on the other hand, I find terribly persuasive in at least making me ashamed to be on her side.
Are facts not persuasive for you?
It's a scientific fact that life begins at conception.
Government's proper role is to secure rights ("That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...")
The 5th Amendment is clear: ("nor shall any person... be deprived of life ... without due process of law")
The right to life is the most fundamental right we have. Without it, no other right matters.
Seriously, I have no clue what's not persuasive about any of that, unless you're a liberal and facts/evidence/logic/reason don't matter compared to your feelings.
Edit: oh yeah, babies are being genocided. Even that should fulfill the feelings requirement. Like, do you even have a soul?
A fetal stage human has a heartbeat and can feel pain well before the point where most abortions take place.
Not u/AntonioOfVenice, but I share this belief.
I think abortion is 100% morally wrong. I find it repugnant and think I would be very hard pressed to ever consider an abortion if I were a woman. Perhaps in the case of a severely disabled child.
I support the death penalty. I support lethal self defense. Obviously very different from abortion, but I believe the state should have limited power to end life.
I support in an all cases, at all times, abortion if the mother's life is in peril or if the child was the product of rape or rapeincest. I support at all times abortion if the child would be born severely disabled.
The vast majority of abortions are to young teens/twenties and very poor females. In some, but certainly not all, of these cases, a child is a huge economic drain on a woman or family, and there's a high rate of child neglect and abuse in these situations at all. Bottom line here, if someone doesn't want a child, there's a high frequency of the mother perpetuating the same shitty life situations to the next generation.
I also anti-population growth. From a practical standpoint, I think the country is better off with the extremely poor having a lower birth rate. I think the extremely poor are better off having a lower birth rate.
I would set a cut off point..14-15 weeks. No abortion after that (except rape/incest/life in peril). That covers like 95% of abortions anyway.
Do I have a soul? Who knows. I do know that I find abortion morally repugnant but I am willing to concede there are some situations where it may be a net positive.
I am enthusiastic about this court decision (though I am somewhat nervous about electoral blowback).
That's because you are morally bankrupt.
Eh, I'd say forcing a 12-year-old girl to carry her uncle's rape spawn to term is an example of being morally bankrupt.
See, you think it's perfectly fine to murder an innocent child.
Morally bankrupt.
See, you want to impose further unimaginable trauma on a 12-year-old rape victim, and all because of your embryo and zygote fetish.
Morally bankrupt.
So, the rest of abortion should be okay because of the <0.5% of cases? You call that slight of hand persuasive? What if there's an allowance for rape/incest/life of mother like is allowed pretty much anywhere?
You're using an emotional, straw-man argument to justify baby murder.
Nope, that certainly does not follow. But if someone says that "abortion should be prohibited in all cases", then surely I get to point out that this is not good, at least in my opinion.
Then I would not call the position morally bankrupt.
If the guy calls me 'morally bankrupt' for supporting first-trimester abortions, then surely I get to call him the same for supporting inflicting such massive trauma on some poor 12-year-old girl. Fair is fair.
Watch an ultrasound of an abortion. No argument required.
I know you are pro choice but do you want abortion up to birth or do you have a cut off?
No, absolutely not - what difference is there if you kill the child after birth or before? That really is no different from murder.
First trimester to about 15-16 weeks sounds reasonable to me.
Gotcha. I think I read that a lot of pro choice people are in that range
For those who are remotely sensible, yes. Up to about 20 weeks or so.
Unfortunately, I have also encountered some truly deranged people, who think that it should be allowed up to the point of birth. And when you disagree with that, they (ironically) act like you have committed a murder, saying that "women don't have an abortion for fun, it should be up to them, blah blah blah".
Overturning roe vs wade will not stop doctors from terminating unsafe pregnancies or cases of incest, rape, and birth defects.