The key point about digital currencies, from what I can tell, is that the organisation issuing the digital currency still gets to control what it is used for, even after it's issued.
It's less "cash" and more "food vouchers". If your employer decides that your wages aren't to be spent on anything irresponsible like stocks and shares, with digital currencies they can enforce this.
They can control what you spend your money on, who you purchase from, how often you're allowed to do so, and tweak rates and fees to encourage or discourage your spending habits.
You'll be forced to behave in a socially appropriate manner (according to their standards) if you want the privilege of continued access to your money.
I can see it now already: quotas and caps on what you're allowed to spend on based upon your "carbon footprint", which you can temporarily raise by climbing up a tier on your social credit score by using your social media accounts to "organically" parrot promote their ESG goals.
Want to eat meat this month? You better get started shilling for Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity, and hope that it's believable enough that sufficient people hit the Like button for you to rank up.
The key reason bankers want digital currencies is so they can implement NEGATIVE interests rates and there would be nothing you can do to avoid it.
(currently interest rates are almost zero in many countries. But they could not go negative or people would withdraw the cash and keep it under their mattress. With CBDC - you wouldn’t have the cash option)
They have done this here in denmark, if you have over (i think) 250k dkr / 38k $. they acrue negative interrest. Not that you would ever see any positive anyway.
With a bond you would buy it for over face value (the dollar amount you receive when the bond matures), and the face value + interest received is less than what you paid for the bond (eg. you pay $101 for a $100 1 year bond at 0% interest which you hold until it matures: the bond yield is -1%).
With a bank account I assume they just take some percentage of the value of your account as a "fee".
Again, it's the voucher nature of the stuff. It can just quietly decline to be used for purchase of physical cash, or of fixed assets, or anything that lets you escape this combined vouchers-and-social-credit system that's being built.
I imagine any possibility of currency trading goes out the window as well, for the same reason: You're on ProleBucks™, now go spend what meagre money we've graciously decided to give you on an insect burger, pleb!
The "mattress problem" is solvable in paper money with a very simple mechanism: give paper notes an expiration date. Then you solve the negative interest rate problem by having the bank charge an "exchange fee" when you exchange them for new bills.
Then if you want to be a dick about it you make the "exchange fee" punitive to "encourage" people to not use paper money.
I don't think it's a problem either, but I also don't think that the existence of paper money is a barrier to negative interest rates. Because it's fiat, there's nothing stopping the issuer from voiding it.
It allows them to track every transaction. It allows them to log the location and time of the transaction, if not everywhere a person travels through the app. It allows them to limit where money is spent. It allows them to freeze anyone's monetary capacity completely. It allows them to add or remove from anyone's account (this has been talked about by the UK government). It allows them to enforce carbon limits. It allows them to do anything for any reason with money. They can easily hook this into a general digital ID, which would track everything.
Rome is currently using a "Smart Citizen Wallet" which tracks behavior to reward with discounts or free activities. This is dystopian.
Well, they started training everyone for that with their credit cards, which can also control where you shop or what you buy (at least, I heard of them doing this years ago over legal but shady/grey market matters.)
Mastercard has the Doconomy Black card that stops you from spending more money if you exceeded your carbon limit. In the countries they offer it, you can use an online calculator to determine your limit if you use any Mastercard.
Mastercard and PayPal have also been the companies that limit what stores are able to sell. Patreon has it's own issues, but it also had to kick creators because of Mastercard. If a credit card company bans your use, it can cause you to be banned from using other credit cards, like what happened after Majit Nawaz was listed as an Islamaphobe by the SPLC, resulting in him being banned by banking services.
How did people living in the desert 2000 years ago predict that one would have to pledge allegiance to a beast system and have a mark (RFID chip?) to buy or sell? There was no way any King or Government could enforce such a thing until recently, and it's coming right as the Western Christian world appears to be coming to a cultural collapse.
The poor ( and the old ) use liquid cash more often than rich people.
I don't want the bank to be able to freeze my cash when they, or the government, feels like it. And in Canada, they did just that a few weeks ago.
The push for digital currency only is about total control of every aspect of your life. Where-to and how you can travel, what you can buy, who you can trade with. Digital currency only gives the banks and government the power to control all of that.
The key point about digital currencies, from what I can tell, is that the organisation issuing the digital currency still gets to control what it is used for, even after it's issued.
It's less "cash" and more "food vouchers". If your employer decides that your wages aren't to be spent on anything irresponsible like stocks and shares, with digital currencies they can enforce this.
Correct.
They can control what you spend your money on, who you purchase from, how often you're allowed to do so, and tweak rates and fees to encourage or discourage your spending habits.
You'll be forced to behave in a socially appropriate manner (according to their standards) if you want the privilege of continued access to your money.
I can see it now already: quotas and caps on what you're allowed to spend on based upon your "carbon footprint", which you can temporarily raise by climbing up a tier on your social credit score by using your social media accounts to "organically"
parrotpromote their ESG goals.Want to eat meat this month? You better get started shilling for Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity, and hope that it's believable enough that sufficient people hit the Like button for you to rank up.
The key reason bankers want digital currencies is so they can implement NEGATIVE interests rates and there would be nothing you can do to avoid it.
(currently interest rates are almost zero in many countries. But they could not go negative or people would withdraw the cash and keep it under their mattress. With CBDC - you wouldn’t have the cash option)
They have done this here in denmark, if you have over (i think) 250k dkr / 38k $. they acrue negative interrest. Not that you would ever see any positive anyway.
How exactly do negative interest rates work? After your bank scoping trace as a certain amount it loses money?
With a bond you would buy it for over face value (the dollar amount you receive when the bond matures), and the face value + interest received is less than what you paid for the bond (eg. you pay $101 for a $100 1 year bond at 0% interest which you hold until it matures: the bond yield is -1%).
With a bank account I assume they just take some percentage of the value of your account as a "fee".
By the way, functionally, this works as the bank charging you a percentage fee to look after your money.
I frankly don't know. Apparently the negative rates are mandated from the state bank/controller thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bank kept the money somehow.
Cash or anything else
Again, it's the voucher nature of the stuff. It can just quietly decline to be used for purchase of physical cash, or of fixed assets, or anything that lets you escape this combined vouchers-and-social-credit system that's being built.
I imagine any possibility of currency trading goes out the window as well, for the same reason: You're on ProleBucks™, now go spend what meagre money we've graciously decided to give you on an insect burger, pleb!
You are right. I never thought of that.
The "mattress problem" is solvable in paper money with a very simple mechanism: give paper notes an expiration date. Then you solve the negative interest rate problem by having the bank charge an "exchange fee" when you exchange them for new bills.
Then if you want to be a dick about it you make the "exchange fee" punitive to "encourage" people to not use paper money.
I personally don’t believe the “mattress problem” is a problem- humans who save and prepare for their future SHOULD be rewarded.
By creating massive amounts of inflation - central banks encourage wastefulness and short term mentality
I don't think it's a problem either, but I also don't think that the existence of paper money is a barrier to negative interest rates. Because it's fiat, there's nothing stopping the issuer from voiding it.
Ah- I misunderstood.
They kind of do this already by regularly replacing paper money designs - due to “security”
It allows them to track every transaction. It allows them to log the location and time of the transaction, if not everywhere a person travels through the app. It allows them to limit where money is spent. It allows them to freeze anyone's monetary capacity completely. It allows them to add or remove from anyone's account (this has been talked about by the UK government). It allows them to enforce carbon limits. It allows them to do anything for any reason with money. They can easily hook this into a general digital ID, which would track everything.
Rome is currently using a "Smart Citizen Wallet" which tracks behavior to reward with discounts or free activities. This is dystopian.
Well, they started training everyone for that with their credit cards, which can also control where you shop or what you buy (at least, I heard of them doing this years ago over legal but shady/grey market matters.)
Mastercard has the Doconomy Black card that stops you from spending more money if you exceeded your carbon limit. In the countries they offer it, you can use an online calculator to determine your limit if you use any Mastercard.
Mastercard and PayPal have also been the companies that limit what stores are able to sell. Patreon has it's own issues, but it also had to kick creators because of Mastercard. If a credit card company bans your use, it can cause you to be banned from using other credit cards, like what happened after Majit Nawaz was listed as an Islamaphobe by the SPLC, resulting in him being banned by banking services.
Yep. You will own nothing and be slaves to the corporate entity.
Banks disenfranchise everyone except bankers.
Funny how less than ten years ago the left was against a cashless society because it disenfranchised the poor....
How did people living in the desert 2000 years ago predict that one would have to pledge allegiance to a beast system and have a mark (RFID chip?) to buy or sell? There was no way any King or Government could enforce such a thing until recently, and it's coming right as the Western Christian world appears to be coming to a cultural collapse.
Crackheads are ahead of the curve. They have been trading "food only" welfare for cash ir drugs for decades.
But im any case engage and build your local community for barter opportunities.
What an extremely stupid and false argument.
The poor ( and the old ) use liquid cash more often than rich people.
I don't want the bank to be able to freeze my cash when they, or the government, feels like it. And in Canada, they did just that a few weeks ago.
The push for digital currency only is about total control of every aspect of your life. Where-to and how you can travel, what you can buy, who you can trade with. Digital currency only gives the banks and government the power to control all of that.