Apparently the timeline of the discovery of the Bucha massacre (as reported by the NYT!) is questionable, since the mayor didn't mention anything about mass killings when the town was liberated. Also it neatly coincides with a Ukranian op to clear the area of "saboteurs and collaborators."
I gave Ukraine some benefit of the doubt about the news when it broke because the presence of dozens or hundreds of dead bodies to fake a massacre just seemed unbelievable. It seems I was at least partially wrong.
This scenario goes along with video of what's supposedly Azov (or another neo-Nazi group) accosting and killing civilians trying to leave Mariupol.
This is the way.
That's nonsense. The 'whole' thing isn't a psyop.
There are definitely people who are dead. There is definitely a side that killed them. There is definitely a side who can gain from parading the dead.
The psyop, is letting the tiresome side, make you close your eyes to the truth. Because now, they can get away with anything.
This isn't Will Smith smacking Chris Rock for a bald cunt.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511086358110027791.html
seem that those people were killed by Ukraine's counter-shelling. and at least one person was killed by a Russian tank even earlier while accidentally entering the tanks' perimeter, there is a drone video.
no evidence about how people with tied hands died, also no evidence of the 300 bodies tortured and killed in cold blood so far.
if you want to accuse someone of massacring 300+ people you must provide some solid evidence I'm afraid.
Any bets on which video game they'll use as "evidence" this time?
Tetris.
Korobeiniki!
who cares. it's war. it always gets even more nasty and vile when the end approaches.
Putin wants an elimination of their military, removal of the nazis and trials for the crimes over the last 8 years, and absolutely no alliance with NATO. I think we can take him at his word as he's being saying essentially this for years (decades?). Murdering civilians doesn't help him achieve these goals. Who knows though.
https://nitter.net/antiwar_soldier/status/1511086358110027791 This guy makes a good case that it was a mortar.
Welcome to 2022. I know nothing, I have no certainty and life has never been worse.
Nobody can be sure about the raw footage authenticity anymore, because the media has never been more corrupt. And the technology? Any 14-year-old can insert a digital tank into a short movie he shot with his smartphone.
Therefore, it's not unthinkable to consider that the corpses could have been inserted, too. The combat zone footage is not believable any more. Generating some pictures is extremely easy. Videos are not a reliable proof anymore.
Lots of the bodies got boxes of Russian aid next to them (green blueish boxes with a large star outline on top)
Its not "Russian aid", it's spent Russian military MRE. The star is their symbol since the Red Army era. Below it reads "Army of Russia" in big letters.
So Russians are eating meals over dead bodies and not handing then out like every nation ever in modern history for hungry populace.
There's a granma who said they fed her, but after they left she found they killed her neighbours.
What do you think they are passing out to people? They are giving out emergency ration kits, which are being distributed by the army (and were probably packaged by the army)...is it really so strange to think they would be labeled by country of origin and by whom is responsible for the packaging and/or distribution?
It's not "Russian humanitarian aid".
Russians looted stores and houses for food. (And not just food. The Kiev suburbs were some of the wealthiest areas in Ukraine.)
In case you haven't noticed, Ukraine is an active warzone. Civilian supply lines are effectively fucked, this means significantly disrupted food deliveries to stores...for what should be fairly obvious reasons. Thus, while the Russian's held the town they provided rations and supplies to those that lived in the town, and there is overwhelming evidence that supports this.
I have seen reports of Russian troops stealing food from stores, I have seen reports of Ukrainian troops stealing food from stores (both levelling the accusations are Ukrainian), I am unsure who is telling the truth or if both are telling the truth. Moreover that doesn't change the fact that the crux of the problem is that Ukraine is literally at war.
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1511652838014861316
The duality of man.
How dare you question then six million!
Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks
Comment Approved: This doesn't do that.
What, the green screeners speak falsehood? No!
I am kinda disappointed in Russian propaganda (and people over at kia2 that buy it, don't jump from the 10th floor because globohomo said it's unhealthy). Couldn't they find better counter claims than that?
The first bodies are dated the same day that announcement from major was published about town getting liberated on 31st (yes, that video was published on 1st of April, surprise!). The material of this "video" people claim was done on 3rd was already photoed by globohomo media and published all over the world on 2nd of April.
Where can I find the photo/video dated April 1 and April 2?
https://t.me/News380/7944
That's one of the very first videos recorded, surprise! Even the "characters" we saw later on are present.
By night into April 2nd we had photos like this (which are obviously made the day before at the latest):
https://t.me/News380/7963
And by evening of April 2 we had mainstream media get on the case, let bing/yandex/whoever be with you. (EDIT: if you are lazy, I can link you that one as well).
Frankly, I don't even find it necessary to defend Russian soldiers here, because they never hid how much of literal Orcs they are. But I do find it important to point out that specific of this war is that basically all the stuff that happens ends up first on Telegram, and Russian propaganda has eaten multiple embarassments to that in last few years.
Thanks, the bodies do match up.
I heard that the bodies were visible on satellite images a week or so ago. I don't care enough to check it though.
It does https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html
The bodies aren't new, they're visible in old sat imagery, it's corroborated by locals.
Btw, https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-ready-to-assist-in-bucha-massacre-investigation-29417
Azov vid was a fake. But Russia really is blockading the city entirely and not letting even Red Cross to come. Speaking of whom (Red Cross), today: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/red-cross-team-released-after-being-blocked-way-mariupol-ukrainian-deputy-pm-2022-04-05/ (which was after https://www.icrc.org/en/document/ukraine-icrc-team-unable-reach-mariupol-renewed-attempt-tomorrow). It's a very Grozny style siege warfare.
I find it at least plausible that the Chechen soldiers in Bucha executed civilians, but I would like to see better evidence. None of the links in your post are relevant to that.
Yeah?
Your first link says the Red Cross is back on their way to Mariupol after being detained overnight. Not much to be outraged about. You don't let a bunch of people pass through a checkpoint just because they're wearing red armbands.
Those bodies look far too fresh for the Russians to have killed them, especially since they left days prior
These bodies are decaying despite having laid in snow and low temp generally.
Its been above freezing in Bucha (and above refrigeration temperature too) for more than a week now, the hell are you talking about? Additionally, you should see signs of rigor mortis on bodies greater than 24 hours old, these bodies show no signs of that.
Unless somehow the Russian's snuck in a bunch of troops, in the presently militarily occupied by Ukrainian forces Bucha, and somehow managed to shoot a bunch of civilians without also attracting attention from the Ukrainian military....I don't buy it.
Survivor testimony naming Siberians (Buryats): https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1511350713435230217
The Economist is a trusted source now? I'm not asking rhetorically - this very well could have happened, but I don't think a journalist from that outlet is unimpeachable proof.
Actually "Chechens" testimony: https://twitter.com/IntelDoge/status/1511429776673812488
The St. George stripes fit the description because many got just decked in these, like novelty Adidas stripes: http://d39raawggeifpx.cloudfront.net/styles/16_9_desktop/s3/articleimages/mezhidov_Cropped.jpg
(Speaking of St. George, there's a video of Georgian volunteers murdering Russian soldiers after an ambush on tank column.)
They say Chechen SOBR & Russian OMON were involved but it's too early to say. The OMON from Siberia got fucked in Bucha back in February: https://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=180&v=IdJzKJlVdUI&feature=emb_title I haven't heard any witnesses speaking of the Chechens in their testimonies, but the talks of like "older guys, over 40, in unusual uniforms like black" recall the descriptions of police detachments doing such things in Chechnya. Russian soldiers are usually young (recent conscripts who signed contracts) and wearing green.
Red Cross repeatedly tried for weeks now. It's not just "someone with armbands", they're emmisaries of the Geneva central of the International Red Cross / Crescent trying to organise an evacuation or at least the access for aid convoys. They've been trying many times for several weeks with the same effect.
Reports that International Red Cross were, once again, are unable to enter Mariupol.
Because a lot of the corpses were buried.
Satellite image from days ago proves mass graves https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/04/04/satellite-photos-show-mass-grave-in-ukraine-russia-denies-involvement/
and this https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html
First twitter video I can't identify who shot who.
Weird lack of snow in there, while the first one had snow. Plus, I can't identify the uniform.
There were many reports of Ukranians burying shelling victims in mass graves through the war.