Yup. It can be a fallacy if applied too broadly, (e.g a+b = f) but in and of itself it is correct if everything is explained properly (e.g a+b+c+d+e = f)
Also, if there is a vaccine passport, it will most likely not be a one-and-done thing. You will have to keep it "active" by doing whatever they tell you to do, in order to participate in society. In practice, this will make you a slave to their commands until you die.
The problem with the Slippery Slope (and the sudden upsurge of criticism of it from the Right) is that an implication is being intentionally changed to be an assertion, and typically the assertions are unprovable. In psychology, when this is done about thinking negatively, it's called "catastrophization".
It is important to understand why you stick to implications, and avoid assertions, which cause catastrophization.
We know why your car starts when you turn the key in the ignition. It is a mechanical series of implications, that lead to a logically valid result, and can be properly reduced.
If you turn the key, then the alternator fuel pump starts. If the alternator fuel pump starts, then the fuel pump starts and the pistons start moving. If the gas pump starts and there's fuel in the gas tank, then the fuel gets sucked into the gas line. If the gas line is filled with fuel and the piston is moving, then the the fuel will enter into the piston's chamber and it will be able to start a spark. If the spark ignites, it will cause the engine to run. HENCE, when you turn the key, the engine will run.
However, if any one of those things ends up being false in reality, then the implication must fail. Each and every one is individually causal to the other. If you don't have an alternator a starter, your car won't start. If you don't have gas, your car won't start. If your fuel pump isn't working, your car won't start. etc, etc.
If we were to truly catalog the entire logical map of why your car can actually start when you turn the key, you would see a vast series of assumptions that have to be made for the chain of implications to work. You have to havean alternator a starter. Every tube has to be connected. You have to have the right fuel. There has to be the right amount of oxygen. Your spark plugs need to be inserted. You have to have the right key. So on and so forth. We don't worry about most of these assumptions, because they're normally true (when was the last time your car didn't have enough oxygen to start?). And if they key doesn't cause the car to run, we then have to check those assumptions because if those assumptions were all true, then the car would have started. Thus, since the conclusion is false, one of our premises must be false (you don't have enough gas).
We know that the process of starting your car is not a Slippery Slope, because each logical event is designed to happen as part of the mechanical process. The implication can be relied upon because it is a known causal series of events leading one from the other, relying on clear assumptions that we assume to be universally true. We have the benefit of having no need to see into the future to deduce that something will be true, because the mechanisms we are relying upon are established, the implications are both sound and clear.
The fallacy occurs when we assert that the results of something that are not established. We're not really implying logical arguments, we are asserting that implications will be true. Catastrophization:
If I go to the bank, I will be shot. If I go to the bank now, I will be disheveled. If I am disheveled in the bank, the security guard will view me as suspicious. If the security guard views me as suspicious, I will nervously put my hands in my pockets. If I nervously put my hands in my pockets, he will think I'm drawing a gun. If he thinks I'm drawing a gun, he will shoot me. Thus, if I go to the bank, I will be shot.
The reason this is fallacious is because the vast array of underlying assumptions that support this conclusion are utterly unknowable. It is possible that you could be shot for these reasons. But you assume that you have to go to the bank disheveled. You assume the guard will view you as suspicious. You assume the guard will even see you. You assume that the guard will think you are drawing a gun.
This is how catastrophization works in real life, and why really depressed people have manic ideas like this. They simply take on faith all the underlying assumptions that are not knowable, and construct worst-case scenarios using implications, based off of these unproven and unprovable assumptions.
What people on the Right are complaining about is that the Left are using the fallacy to dismiss arguments that reject those fundamental assumptions. "It's a slippery slope fallacy that rent control will create homelessness because I'm a filthy communist that doesn't understand economics". In the same way "I'm not familiar with internal combustion engines, so if I don't understand something, then all of your fundamental assumptions can't be true. You can't possibly know that you have the right gas in the car, you can't even see the tank."
My suspicion is that the Right has so many worthless fucking black-pillers that they simply assert that their black-pill catastrophization is true, therefore the slippery slope fallacy must also be a myth. The toxic mentality of the reactionary doomer right, poisons their ability to understand that implication and assertion are still fundamentally different things in reality, regardless of emotional disturbance or communist lies.
I know this is a long rant, but ever since I heard Academic Agent ranting about the damn thing, even going so far as to wonder if fallacies should even be included in his Fundamentals of Logic course, it's been absolutely driving me up a wall.
Logical Validity is pretty important to me because I come at it from the programming world where Boolean Logic is literally our existence, and violating it means everything you do is a failure without. Absolutely rigid and uncompromising logic is imperative for any program to function, and it annoys me when fundamental things are being simply rejected out of emotional bias.
u/NihilistCaregiver , might as well bring you onto this since it was your comment originally.
Okay, I admit that I'm not an expert on my car's fuel system. Thank you for the clarification.
But that's also part of my point anyway. The reason it's not a slippery slope is because the underlying assumptions and causations are so rigid that it is not reductionism to reduce all of the logic gates to a simple turn key -> start car. I do not have to know the intricate knowledge of my car's fuel system. So long as I know that most of the assumptions are true, I'll get the implied conclusion.
Whereas, in a Slippery Slope fallacy, I am relying on my assertions to be true since I can't actually prove that any of my underlying assumptions are true.
As humans, we don't have to solve the Knowledge Problem to drive a car, in the same way we don't have to know how to build a pencil from scratch in order to use one. We use logical functions and implications to hide information that is not pertinent to the user, but still creates the outcomes we are seeking so long as our inputs are valid.
A Slippery Slope mimics that, but fails to actually validate it's underlying assumptions.
However, one of the most fundamentally important aspects to understanding in logic is that validity is not truth.
The New York Yankees are a baseball team. A baseball team will win the World Series. Therefore, the New York Yankees will the World Series.
This is fallacious... but there's nothing stopping the conclusion from being true regardless of the premises.
This is referred to as the "Fallacy Fallacy". You assumed something has to be false, because it's fallacious, which is a logical fallacy in and of itself.
Only reason for that meme is because of that dumb picture with the Greek philosophers with the list of logical fallacies that was plastered on reddit for like a year straight some years back. Slippery slope was on there.
Was the perfect thing for brainlets who like to feel smart, tiny little digestible chunks of very smart boy facts for them to regurgitate on others as convenient.
The amount of indoctrination in people is sickening. People in my loose circle who don't understand the importance of freedom and don't understand that you can't make exceptions to that for "safety" or "security" -- an inherently free society is a little less safe and secure -- that's the price of freedom.
We're headed down a dark path. I don't say that as a doomer, I say that because I really thought -- outside of all the Trump Derangement Syndrome -- that we were all Americans and valued the foundations of our Republic.
"We" don't, and half the country (or at least a vocal minority + the federal government) is ready to tear it all down.
If its any solace, a huge chunk of the population is against this. Trump breaking vote records for a sitting president speaks to that. Its just as you said, the vocal minority that the government amplifies to make them seem more numerous than they are.
you can't make exceptions to that for "safety" or "security" -- an inherently free society is a little less safe and secure -- that's the price of freedom.
It's not even the price of freedom. Freedom just embraces the reality that life is inherently dangerous. Authoritarianism doesn't really do anything to increase safety, it just pretends like it does while also introducing the new risk of the government doing whatever the fuck it wants with you.
Well, of COURSE the UK would be the first to think of it, because they used to pull this shit with non-humans, but oh, everyone forgot about that pretty quick. Mandatory 6 months quarantine for ALL non-human mammals even if they did have their vax papers. All because of fear of rabies, which the UK had none of at all (but they sure weren't fussed when AIDS came to their shores, walking on human feet ...)
If it's not a thing any more, it's only because 1) the chunnel and 2) the Olympics (the one they hosted before the 2012 one, the equestrians were pretty peeved at having to sit around for 6 months before the events, and couldn't even train their horses. I remember because Big Ben - the horse - was the biggest thing in the news all throughout that Olympics, and those games are something the media won't shut the fuck up about.)
Our milquetoast fence sitter Tim Pool pointed out a comment some moderate liberal told him about vaccination.
He got the vaccination because he just wanted to get out of this stupid back and forth. He didn't get it to virtue signal, he didn't get it because he was worried about infection rates, there was no collective motivation telling him to get it. He didn't want some stupid "COVID passport" card from it either.
He got it because he knows after he got it, it's YOUR problem now. Not any of you in this forum, but it's the problem of all these paranoid COVID doomers. The dude left the COVID conversation and wants everyone to fuck off, including the government and private entities. For him, it's over.
I just hope the dude understands even though he "left" the COVID problem, government overreach is still there to extend its grip on him. Government is only getting bigger by the day due to this authoritarian bullshit.
I know him "leaving" the conversation still bothers a lot of you because it means the specter of government overreach is still there, but it just goes to show those who are in the middle who aren't as redpilled as we are on this whole thing are starting to show cracks. Normies are starting to get sick of this shit. It may not be as quickly as we want them to but it's slowly happening.
States are already refusing it and passing EO's against it. Gonna be interesting seeing border checks points with national guard and state troopers to prevent out of towners from entering their state without the vaxx passport.
Yup. It can be a fallacy if applied too broadly, (e.g a+b = f) but in and of itself it is correct if everything is explained properly (e.g a+b+c+d+e = f)
Also, if there is a vaccine passport, it will most likely not be a one-and-done thing. You will have to keep it "active" by doing whatever they tell you to do, in order to participate in society. In practice, this will make you a slave to their commands until you die.
The problem with the Slippery Slope (and the sudden upsurge of criticism of it from the Right) is that an implication is being intentionally changed to be an assertion, and typically the assertions are unprovable. In psychology, when this is done about thinking negatively, it's called "catastrophization".
It is important to understand why you stick to implications, and avoid assertions, which cause catastrophization.
We know why your car starts when you turn the key in the ignition. It is a mechanical series of implications, that lead to a logically valid result, and can be properly reduced.
If you turn the key,
then the alternator fuel pump starts. If the alternator fuel pump starts,then the fuel pump starts and the pistons start moving. If the gas pump starts and there's fuel in the gas tank, then the fuel gets sucked into the gas line. If the gas line is filled with fuel and the piston is moving, then the the fuel will enter into the piston's chamber and it will be able to start a spark. If the spark ignites, it will cause the engine to run. HENCE, when you turn the key, the engine will run.However, if any one of those things ends up being false in reality, then the implication must fail. Each and every one is individually causal to the other. If you don't have
an alternatora starter, your car won't start. If you don't have gas, your car won't start. If your fuel pump isn't working, your car won't start. etc, etc.If we were to truly catalog the entire logical map of why your car can actually start when you turn the key, you would see a vast series of assumptions that have to be made for the chain of implications to work. You have to have
an alternatora starter. Every tube has to be connected. You have to have the right fuel. There has to be the right amount of oxygen. Your spark plugs need to be inserted. You have to have the right key. So on and so forth. We don't worry about most of these assumptions, because they're normally true (when was the last time your car didn't have enough oxygen to start?). And if they key doesn't cause the car to run, we then have to check those assumptions because if those assumptions were all true, then the car would have started. Thus, since the conclusion is false, one of our premises must be false (you don't have enough gas).We know that the process of starting your car is not a Slippery Slope, because each logical event is designed to happen as part of the mechanical process. The implication can be relied upon because it is a known causal series of events leading one from the other, relying on clear assumptions that we assume to be universally true. We have the benefit of having no need to see into the future to deduce that something will be true, because the mechanisms we are relying upon are established, the implications are both sound and clear.
The fallacy occurs when we assert that the results of something that are not established. We're not really implying logical arguments, we are asserting that implications will be true. Catastrophization:
If I go to the bank, I will be shot. If I go to the bank now, I will be disheveled. If I am disheveled in the bank, the security guard will view me as suspicious. If the security guard views me as suspicious, I will nervously put my hands in my pockets. If I nervously put my hands in my pockets, he will think I'm drawing a gun. If he thinks I'm drawing a gun, he will shoot me. Thus, if I go to the bank, I will be shot.
The reason this is fallacious is because the vast array of underlying assumptions that support this conclusion are utterly unknowable. It is possible that you could be shot for these reasons. But you assume that you have to go to the bank disheveled. You assume the guard will view you as suspicious. You assume the guard will even see you. You assume that the guard will think you are drawing a gun.
This is how catastrophization works in real life, and why really depressed people have manic ideas like this. They simply take on faith all the underlying assumptions that are not knowable, and construct worst-case scenarios using implications, based off of these unproven and unprovable assumptions.
What people on the Right are complaining about is that the Left are using the fallacy to dismiss arguments that reject those fundamental assumptions. "It's a slippery slope fallacy that rent control will create homelessness because I'm a filthy communist that doesn't understand economics". In the same way "I'm not familiar with internal combustion engines, so if I don't understand something, then all of your fundamental assumptions can't be true. You can't possibly know that you have the right gas in the car, you can't even see the tank."
My suspicion is that the Right has so many worthless fucking black-pillers that they simply assert that their black-pill catastrophization is true, therefore the slippery slope fallacy must also be a myth. The toxic mentality of the reactionary doomer right, poisons their ability to understand that implication and assertion are still fundamentally different things in reality, regardless of emotional disturbance or communist lies.
I know this is a long rant, but ever since I heard Academic Agent ranting about the damn thing, even going so far as to wonder if fallacies should even be included in his Fundamentals of Logic course, it's been absolutely driving me up a wall.
Logical Validity is pretty important to me because I come at it from the programming world where Boolean Logic is literally our existence, and violating it means everything you do is a failure without. Absolutely rigid and uncompromising logic is imperative for any program to function, and it annoys me when fundamental things are being simply rejected out of emotional bias.
u/NihilistCaregiver , might as well bring you onto this since it was your comment originally.
Okay, I admit that I'm not an expert on my car's fuel system. Thank you for the clarification.
But that's also part of my point anyway. The reason it's not a slippery slope is because the underlying assumptions and causations are so rigid that it is not reductionism to reduce all of the logic gates to a simple turn key -> start car. I do not have to know the intricate knowledge of my car's fuel system. So long as I know that most of the assumptions are true, I'll get the implied conclusion.
Whereas, in a Slippery Slope fallacy, I am relying on my assertions to be true since I can't actually prove that any of my underlying assumptions are true.
As humans, we don't have to solve the Knowledge Problem to drive a car, in the same way we don't have to know how to build a pencil from scratch in order to use one. We use logical functions and implications to hide information that is not pertinent to the user, but still creates the outcomes we are seeking so long as our inputs are valid.
A Slippery Slope mimics that, but fails to actually validate it's underlying assumptions.
This is it chief.
The slippery slope is a fallacy.
However, one of the most fundamentally important aspects to understanding in logic is that validity is not truth.
This is fallacious... but there's nothing stopping the conclusion from being true regardless of the premises.
This is referred to as the "Fallacy Fallacy". You assumed something has to be false, because it's fallacious, which is a logical fallacy in and of itself.
Only reason for that meme is because of that dumb picture with the Greek philosophers with the list of logical fallacies that was plastered on reddit for like a year straight some years back. Slippery slope was on there.
Was the perfect thing for brainlets who like to feel smart, tiny little digestible chunks of very smart boy facts for them to regurgitate on others as convenient.
Here are some examples of the media denying it
https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/03/covid-vaccine-conspiracy-theories-and-myths-debunked-13694062/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/01/no-plan-for-covid-vaccine-passports-in-uk-says-michael-gove
Now both the US and the UK have governments that are actively planning to implement this.
This is the absolute scariest thing.
The amount of indoctrination in people is sickening. People in my loose circle who don't understand the importance of freedom and don't understand that you can't make exceptions to that for "safety" or "security" -- an inherently free society is a little less safe and secure -- that's the price of freedom.
We're headed down a dark path. I don't say that as a doomer, I say that because I really thought -- outside of all the Trump Derangement Syndrome -- that we were all Americans and valued the foundations of our Republic.
"We" don't, and half the country (or at least a vocal minority + the federal government) is ready to tear it all down.
If its any solace, a huge chunk of the population is against this. Trump breaking vote records for a sitting president speaks to that. Its just as you said, the vocal minority that the government amplifies to make them seem more numerous than they are.
It's not even the price of freedom. Freedom just embraces the reality that life is inherently dangerous. Authoritarianism doesn't really do anything to increase safety, it just pretends like it does while also introducing the new risk of the government doing whatever the fuck it wants with you.
Well, of COURSE the UK would be the first to think of it, because they used to pull this shit with non-humans, but oh, everyone forgot about that pretty quick. Mandatory 6 months quarantine for ALL non-human mammals even if they did have their vax papers. All because of fear of rabies, which the UK had none of at all (but they sure weren't fussed when AIDS came to their shores, walking on human feet ...)
If it's not a thing any more, it's only because 1) the chunnel and 2) the Olympics (the one they hosted before the 2012 one, the equestrians were pretty peeved at having to sit around for 6 months before the events, and couldn't even train their horses. I remember because Big Ben - the horse - was the biggest thing in the news all throughout that Olympics, and those games are something the media won't shut the fuck up about.)
Our milquetoast fence sitter Tim Pool pointed out a comment some moderate liberal told him about vaccination.
He got the vaccination because he just wanted to get out of this stupid back and forth. He didn't get it to virtue signal, he didn't get it because he was worried about infection rates, there was no collective motivation telling him to get it. He didn't want some stupid "COVID passport" card from it either.
He got it because he knows after he got it, it's YOUR problem now. Not any of you in this forum, but it's the problem of all these paranoid COVID doomers. The dude left the COVID conversation and wants everyone to fuck off, including the government and private entities. For him, it's over.
I just hope the dude understands even though he "left" the COVID problem, government overreach is still there to extend its grip on him. Government is only getting bigger by the day due to this authoritarian bullshit.
I know him "leaving" the conversation still bothers a lot of you because it means the specter of government overreach is still there, but it just goes to show those who are in the middle who aren't as redpilled as we are on this whole thing are starting to show cracks. Normies are starting to get sick of this shit. It may not be as quickly as we want them to but it's slowly happening.
Someone should've him that just because he put the noose around his neck doesn't mean they aren't gonna kick the chair from under him
States are already refusing it and passing EO's against it. Gonna be interesting seeing border checks points with national guard and state troopers to prevent out of towners from entering their state without the vaxx passport.
The Progressive Death Cult is real and they run society. Take the mRNA jab, pleb.
I'll still be the last in line to get this stupid unnecessary vaccine.
I wonder why. Must be another push for the
possible bioweaponvaccine thathappens to kill more young men than the diseaseis totally effectiveI am legitimately afraid that someday, someone will sneak some CRISPR crap in vaccines.
You mean that ironically, right? You don't add CRISPR accidentally.
Hopefully something painful.
But seriously, I highly doubt that a woman would create a vaccine that harms her own.
That was Sanger’s scheme to reduce the out of control black birth rates.
Which was a key part of the feminist agenda to use gender selective abortions to choose the gender of their child.
Hey, that's my link! Nice to see other people using it.