In some of the less ideologically captured communities of Psychology its a pretty common diagnosis, because a large swath of women are truly suffering from it as the root of their mental psychosis.
I'd dare say a significant amount of the "anxiety/depression" that basically all of them seem to have grows out of an illogical and intrusive fear of men that they never learned to handle. Because like a lot of phobias, they take something they should have genuine fear of, like heights or spiders, and make it all consuming and paralyzing. Men are much stronger and are capable of great evils if they wanted to a woman, so a healthy amount of fear should be present just to prevent recklessness.
Of course Feminism breeds by forcing this fear into girls as young as possible, so its almost a cultural cornerstone. And because Feminism also captured Psychology very early on, its mostly buried as a topic because of how many of the doctors themselves suffer from it and don't see it as an issue.
The heart of most resentment is fear. They become afraid of men the first time they realize just how weak they are physically in comparison. And thinking about this too much brings about hate to push the feelings out of themselves and onto other people.
Its the same human instinct that causes the type of men who'd become typical "incels" to stop focusing on their own failure and spend endless days talking about how awful women are. Which might be true, but its also creating hate out of fear of loneliness and having to face themselves.
I wish women were as afraid of men as you and the OP seem to imply, but I'm not really prepared to give them that much credit. I think they use men's perception of their fear of men to manipulate the men who are close to them into doing what they want, and even weaponize them against other men. If they were as fearful as you think they are, they would be more concerned about the consequences of that behavior, but instead, they learn from the cradle that they can manipulate, cajole, bully and harangue the men around them into giving them what they want without consequence, and they spend their lives doing so without fear of consequence.
I wish women were as afraid of men as you and the OP seem to imply
I've spent over 2 decades being an anti-feminist, doing so long before most people here joined this "culture war," and in doing so I've had to talk to far too many feminists. From Lib Fems to Rad Fems to just Casual Feminists.
Every single one of them is overcompensating for their genuine fear of men. Like, its absurd the things they are afraid of and what they think men will do to them. Like the idea of being roofie'd is almost entirely made up, their own Feminist studies found that less than 1% of cases suspected of it actually involved any drugs and most of them just blacked out from over drinking. Yet almost every woman between 14-40 is afraid of roofies like its a regular thing and all men know where to get them if need be.
And its why they are so easily convinced of the worst ideologies, because it simply promises them protection from these paranoid scenarios. Even in ways that make no sense, as most Leftist ideologies don't.
Ironically my friend, you are the one giving them too much credit. You talk of them as if they are capable of incredible plans and thoughts, and are actually deliberately working men against each other for their own benefit. Whereas in my point of view, they are just idiots that barely grow out of childish thinking. Including the short term impulsiveness of a teenager that makes them unable to comprehend consequences proper.
You are falling into the trap of thinking of them like men, wherein we solve problems and think about consequences. But these are women, consequences barely exist in their world and they live in little bubbles of emotional rationalization instead of any logical thinking.
they are just idiots that barely grow out of childish thinking.
They never have to.
The 'Women are wonderful' effect is more powerful than anyone is willing to admit, almost to the point of reality-deformation. Women - in western society, atleast - live charmed lives without realizing it. Men get a glimpse - witness autogynephilia - but don't really understand just how powerful this effect is, and neither do women.
The problem is... when this effect breaks, it breaks hard, and badly. Things shift from 0 to a 100 really fucking quickly, in a way the woman had no way of predicting, and often leads to horrific ends for the woman in question. Survivors of whatever experience almost have to contend with shiczoprenia, as thier entire perspective of how reality works has been irrevocably broken. It's why you have some women utter the phrase 'I have to treat all men as rapist/theives/serial killers, you just don't know' with complete seriousness, and no awareness of how if you replaced 'men' with any other group just how bad that attitude would be.
Hence the neurotic fear. And women being herd animals, well...
Men, however, have no comparable effect. We deal with the entire sliding scale, from 0 to a 100, with all points inbetween. We've learned how to judge such things, how they can escalate, how they can de-escalate, when it's time to approach with caution and when it's time to leave. It's why men, which introduced to another man, can size him up in some way or fashion, even if it's just some sort of 'gut feeling'.
Mind, this is all my personal theory. So take it with a grain of salt.
I don't disagree with anything you say except for one.
Men, however, have no comparable effect.
We do have that effect, and its when "Women are wonderful" breaks for us. When a man finally has that snapping moment when women cease to be beautiful wonderful creatures and their "true nature" is no longer hidden behind waves of horny and manipulation.
It doesn't break easy, especially not as easy as it does for women. But when it does you can feel it in your soul that reality itself just isn't the same anymore. Its why a lot of older coomers used to talk about "sage mode," because it was a temporary feeling of that freedom.
Its why its just as dangerous for a man to be a slut as a woman. While he might not gain the same physical detriments and specific mental maladies as they do, it runs just as much through his own mind and perception of the world and leads to him being lost in this maddening state of forcefully seeing everything too plainly.
And while you could argue seeing the "truth" of the world is a good thing no matter what, most men do not cope well with that and end up becoming Andrew Tate level psychotic from it.
They are just idiots that barely grow put of childish thinking
On this I agree 100%, and I never meant to imply that I believe their manipulations are in any way conscious or calculated. They do it out of instinct, and to the extent that they're aware of it, it only makes them even more resentful that they are forced to cajole men into doing things for them that they are incapable of doing for themselves.
But my argument about the fear paradigm stands. I think a lot of the paranoia you describe is performative, that it is learned behavior, and that it it just another tool by which women attempt to extract sympathy, comfort and resources from men and male institutions. Again, this is not a conspiracy as TheImp always insists it is: it is just instinctive behavior.
I suppose we're having a chicken and egg argument. You seem to be arguing that the manipulative behavior is a learned adaptation by which they compensate for their innate fear of men, whereas I believe the manipulative behavior is an innate facet of female nature, and that the fear is learned. Those increasingly rare women who are more hesitant to engage in that kind of crybullying and manipulation are that way because they had a man, usually a father, who taught them that they would face consequences for doing it.
I think a lot of the paranoia you describe is performative
Some of it is, the kind they openly talk about certainly is. Like, a lot of the girls on twitter making big call out posts are clearly hyping it up for victim cred. But under that is resentment, and under that further is fear.
The ones I specifically talked to weren't openly talking about their fears. They were still trying to be manipulative as women do. You could simply see the fear if you knew how women talk and how they spin things. Reading between the lines, as it were. They aren't masters, if you are paying attention you can see the threads in their weaves and that thread is always fear.
whereas I believe the manipulative behavior is an innate facet of female nature, and that the fear is learned
I don't disagree its innate to them, that is often pure instinctive behavior. But its instinctive because they have millennia of this fear, long before any culture and modern nonsense of civilization, that forced them to create that manipulative nature to survive when they couldn't win any other way.
The minute details of it might be learned as they age to compensate, but that fear is older than that manipulative nature. Even if both are instinctively innate to them to engage in, one lead to the other. And as such the fear is much more powerful than the need to manipulate.
If you want a wild example of this, just go up to your wife and do the classic anime "wall slam" and watch their face. No matter what personality she has or puts up, unless she completely sees you as pathetically below her she will instantly show you that raw emotion. And, because women are fucked up, be instantly turned on too.
Misandry is ideological, which means its mostly a choice. A phobia is reflexive, its maladaptive and beyond simply choosing because illogical things can't be logicked out of.
Its like the difference between hating blacks because you took a look at economics and crime stats or hating them because you got mugged by one and now have anxiety attacks when you see them. The end result might be similar, but otherwise its a huge difference.
Both words have their use in dealing with two different types of people and why they are the way they are.
Well, you said you don't like how "phobia" is attached to things. "Misandry" seems to communicate what you want without that baggage. Also, when you're trying to brand something, create a strong message, etc. it's probably best to have a single term rather than multiple redundant terms, because consistency leads to recognizability and coherence.
If you think "androphobia" communicate something that "misandry" doesn't, or vice versa, then sure, it might make sense to use both at different times for those different use cases. If you're just saying "here's a word that means this thing, although I do have complaints about it," then the question becomes "why not use the other term that also means that and doesn't come with the thing you don't like instead"?
I don't like it, but it's not a hill I wanna die on, either. changing things up once in a while puts another tool int he box, so to speak.
plus the more I think about it, people know what a phobia is, and misandry doesn't exactly roll off the tongue smoothly... fewer syllables but a little bit more awkward to say.
not saying you don't have point by the way, you do.
There's a subtle advantage to language like "phobia" if we're feeling like being as manipulative as they are. "Misandry" is like "sexism." It suggests a conscious choice to be negative towards men. The person holding that position has agency. But "androphobia," means the person holding it has a defect that they're broken and can be rehabilitated.
It's the exact reason they love to use "homophobia" and "transphobia" so much.
The implication buried in the word choice is that the person expressing those views is the abnormal thing. It signals a false consensus and lets you medicalize your opposition. You see, your critic isn't just an asshole, he's in need of reeducation. For his own good of course.
Having a personable "conversation" with a chat bot. Which is gay enough, but then, to take the time to screen shot and share it, as if you've somehow discovered something valuable.. gayer than AIDS.
Yeah, I've seen it around before. Mostly it's whilst I'm doing community service in lefty men's groups nudging brainwashed younguns back into full independent thought, because lefties only feel comfortable standing up for themselves if they can label it x-phobia first.
I get along with MGTOWs, even if I don't have quite the same level of blackpill towards the fairer sex, and on this we agree; feminism has absolutely ruined the dating world for men (and I would argue women as well).
Feminists are out there propping up bitches they personally hate just because they're not men. If you want to fight fire with fire, gotta suck it up and keep the team moving together.
some of them. there's a few I don't mind. Mike Stephens is pretty decent, though I worry about the guy sometimes...there's times when it seems like he's holding on by the ragged edges of his fingernails, and they're starting to come loose...
In some of the less ideologically captured communities of Psychology its a pretty common diagnosis, because a large swath of women are truly suffering from it as the root of their mental psychosis.
I'd dare say a significant amount of the "anxiety/depression" that basically all of them seem to have grows out of an illogical and intrusive fear of men that they never learned to handle. Because like a lot of phobias, they take something they should have genuine fear of, like heights or spiders, and make it all consuming and paralyzing. Men are much stronger and are capable of great evils if they wanted to a woman, so a healthy amount of fear should be present just to prevent recklessness.
Of course Feminism breeds by forcing this fear into girls as young as possible, so its almost a cultural cornerstone. And because Feminism also captured Psychology very early on, its mostly buried as a topic because of how many of the doctors themselves suffer from it and don't see it as an issue.
The primary motivator behind feminism is not fear: it's resentment.
The heart of most resentment is fear. They become afraid of men the first time they realize just how weak they are physically in comparison. And thinking about this too much brings about hate to push the feelings out of themselves and onto other people.
Its the same human instinct that causes the type of men who'd become typical "incels" to stop focusing on their own failure and spend endless days talking about how awful women are. Which might be true, but its also creating hate out of fear of loneliness and having to face themselves.
I wish women were as afraid of men as you and the OP seem to imply, but I'm not really prepared to give them that much credit. I think they use men's perception of their fear of men to manipulate the men who are close to them into doing what they want, and even weaponize them against other men. If they were as fearful as you think they are, they would be more concerned about the consequences of that behavior, but instead, they learn from the cradle that they can manipulate, cajole, bully and harangue the men around them into giving them what they want without consequence, and they spend their lives doing so without fear of consequence.
I've spent over 2 decades being an anti-feminist, doing so long before most people here joined this "culture war," and in doing so I've had to talk to far too many feminists. From Lib Fems to Rad Fems to just Casual Feminists.
Every single one of them is overcompensating for their genuine fear of men. Like, its absurd the things they are afraid of and what they think men will do to them. Like the idea of being roofie'd is almost entirely made up, their own Feminist studies found that less than 1% of cases suspected of it actually involved any drugs and most of them just blacked out from over drinking. Yet almost every woman between 14-40 is afraid of roofies like its a regular thing and all men know where to get them if need be.
And its why they are so easily convinced of the worst ideologies, because it simply promises them protection from these paranoid scenarios. Even in ways that make no sense, as most Leftist ideologies don't.
Ironically my friend, you are the one giving them too much credit. You talk of them as if they are capable of incredible plans and thoughts, and are actually deliberately working men against each other for their own benefit. Whereas in my point of view, they are just idiots that barely grow out of childish thinking. Including the short term impulsiveness of a teenager that makes them unable to comprehend consequences proper.
You are falling into the trap of thinking of them like men, wherein we solve problems and think about consequences. But these are women, consequences barely exist in their world and they live in little bubbles of emotional rationalization instead of any logical thinking.
They never have to.
The 'Women are wonderful' effect is more powerful than anyone is willing to admit, almost to the point of reality-deformation. Women - in western society, atleast - live charmed lives without realizing it. Men get a glimpse - witness autogynephilia - but don't really understand just how powerful this effect is, and neither do women.
The problem is... when this effect breaks, it breaks hard, and badly. Things shift from 0 to a 100 really fucking quickly, in a way the woman had no way of predicting, and often leads to horrific ends for the woman in question. Survivors of whatever experience almost have to contend with shiczoprenia, as thier entire perspective of how reality works has been irrevocably broken. It's why you have some women utter the phrase 'I have to treat all men as rapist/theives/serial killers, you just don't know' with complete seriousness, and no awareness of how if you replaced 'men' with any other group just how bad that attitude would be.
Hence the neurotic fear. And women being herd animals, well...
Men, however, have no comparable effect. We deal with the entire sliding scale, from 0 to a 100, with all points inbetween. We've learned how to judge such things, how they can escalate, how they can de-escalate, when it's time to approach with caution and when it's time to leave. It's why men, which introduced to another man, can size him up in some way or fashion, even if it's just some sort of 'gut feeling'.
Mind, this is all my personal theory. So take it with a grain of salt.
I don't disagree with anything you say except for one.
We do have that effect, and its when "Women are wonderful" breaks for us. When a man finally has that snapping moment when women cease to be beautiful wonderful creatures and their "true nature" is no longer hidden behind waves of horny and manipulation.
It doesn't break easy, especially not as easy as it does for women. But when it does you can feel it in your soul that reality itself just isn't the same anymore. Its why a lot of older coomers used to talk about "sage mode," because it was a temporary feeling of that freedom.
Its why its just as dangerous for a man to be a slut as a woman. While he might not gain the same physical detriments and specific mental maladies as they do, it runs just as much through his own mind and perception of the world and leads to him being lost in this maddening state of forcefully seeing everything too plainly.
And while you could argue seeing the "truth" of the world is a good thing no matter what, most men do not cope well with that and end up becoming Andrew Tate level psychotic from it.
Hmm. A fair point. I agree.
On this I agree 100%, and I never meant to imply that I believe their manipulations are in any way conscious or calculated. They do it out of instinct, and to the extent that they're aware of it, it only makes them even more resentful that they are forced to cajole men into doing things for them that they are incapable of doing for themselves.
But my argument about the fear paradigm stands. I think a lot of the paranoia you describe is performative, that it is learned behavior, and that it it just another tool by which women attempt to extract sympathy, comfort and resources from men and male institutions. Again, this is not a conspiracy as TheImp always insists it is: it is just instinctive behavior.
I suppose we're having a chicken and egg argument. You seem to be arguing that the manipulative behavior is a learned adaptation by which they compensate for their innate fear of men, whereas I believe the manipulative behavior is an innate facet of female nature, and that the fear is learned. Those increasingly rare women who are more hesitant to engage in that kind of crybullying and manipulation are that way because they had a man, usually a father, who taught them that they would face consequences for doing it.
Some of it is, the kind they openly talk about certainly is. Like, a lot of the girls on twitter making big call out posts are clearly hyping it up for victim cred. But under that is resentment, and under that further is fear.
The ones I specifically talked to weren't openly talking about their fears. They were still trying to be manipulative as women do. You could simply see the fear if you knew how women talk and how they spin things. Reading between the lines, as it were. They aren't masters, if you are paying attention you can see the threads in their weaves and that thread is always fear.
I don't disagree its innate to them, that is often pure instinctive behavior. But its instinctive because they have millennia of this fear, long before any culture and modern nonsense of civilization, that forced them to create that manipulative nature to survive when they couldn't win any other way.
The minute details of it might be learned as they age to compensate, but that fear is older than that manipulative nature. Even if both are instinctively innate to them to engage in, one lead to the other. And as such the fear is much more powerful than the need to manipulate.
If you want a wild example of this, just go up to your wife and do the classic anime "wall slam" and watch their face. No matter what personality she has or puts up, unless she completely sees you as pathetically below her she will instantly show you that raw emotion. And, because women are fucked up, be instantly turned on too.
I think you'll find that it's fear combined with opportunity. Fear is just one edge of the double edged sword.
This is why "You're just insecure" is such a common insult that is seemingly bizarre. It's them assuming you feel what they feel.
Why not use "misandry"?
Misandry is ideological, which means its mostly a choice. A phobia is reflexive, its maladaptive and beyond simply choosing because illogical things can't be logicked out of.
Its like the difference between hating blacks because you took a look at economics and crime stats or hating them because you got mugged by one and now have anxiety attacks when you see them. The end result might be similar, but otherwise its a huge difference.
Both words have their use in dealing with two different types of people and why they are the way they are.
They mean different things.
Misandry is hatred of males/maleness/whatever.
Androphobia is fear of males/maleness/whatever.
So use the one you're trying to communicate.
why not use both?
Well, you said you don't like how "phobia" is attached to things. "Misandry" seems to communicate what you want without that baggage. Also, when you're trying to brand something, create a strong message, etc. it's probably best to have a single term rather than multiple redundant terms, because consistency leads to recognizability and coherence.
If you think "androphobia" communicate something that "misandry" doesn't, or vice versa, then sure, it might make sense to use both at different times for those different use cases. If you're just saying "here's a word that means this thing, although I do have complaints about it," then the question becomes "why not use the other term that also means that and doesn't come with the thing you don't like instead"?
I don't like it, but it's not a hill I wanna die on, either. changing things up once in a while puts another tool int he box, so to speak.
plus the more I think about it, people know what a phobia is, and misandry doesn't exactly roll off the tongue smoothly... fewer syllables but a little bit more awkward to say.
not saying you don't have point by the way, you do.
There's a subtle advantage to language like "phobia" if we're feeling like being as manipulative as they are. "Misandry" is like "sexism." It suggests a conscious choice to be negative towards men. The person holding that position has agency. But "androphobia," means the person holding it has a defect that they're broken and can be rehabilitated.
It's the exact reason they love to use "homophobia" and "transphobia" so much. The implication buried in the word choice is that the person expressing those views is the abnormal thing. It signals a false consensus and lets you medicalize your opposition. You see, your critic isn't just an asshole, he's in need of reeducation. For his own good of course.
not sure if that's a plus one or a negative one, but either way, i'll take it, lol.
''and can be experienced by people of any gender''
What a retardedly verbose way to say ''men and women''.
Why do they need another word for ''man-hating''?
gab ai is like that sometimes...
Having a personable "conversation" with a chat bot. Which is gay enough, but then, to take the time to screen shot and share it, as if you've somehow discovered something valuable.. gayer than AIDS.
Yeah, I've seen it around before. Mostly it's whilst I'm doing community service in lefty men's groups nudging brainwashed younguns back into full independent thought, because lefties only feel comfortable standing up for themselves if they can label it x-phobia first.
lol.
I get along with MGTOWs, even if I don't have quite the same level of blackpill towards the fairer sex, and on this we agree; feminism has absolutely ruined the dating world for men (and I would argue women as well).
Feminists are out there propping up bitches they personally hate just because they're not men. If you want to fight fire with fire, gotta suck it up and keep the team moving together.
some of them. there's a few I don't mind. Mike Stephens is pretty decent, though I worry about the guy sometimes...there's times when it seems like he's holding on by the ragged edges of his fingernails, and they're starting to come loose...