Anyone watching this? I’m very into pro wrestling, and I know there’s a lot of criticism that this series is catered toward non-fans and just rehashes a lot of stuff that knowledgeable fans already knew. I think that’s accurate, but I also think these stories don’t get old no matter how many times I hear them. It does seem like a major limitation that it was mostly filmed before all the sex trafficking stuff came out - just a giant elephant in the background that it’s not possible for the series to address…but then again, I haven’t made it to the last episode yet, so will be interesting to see how it gets handled there.
Some other random observations, based on this plus the million other wrestling documentaries I’ve seen:
*Eric Bischoff seems legit retarded. I know he fancies himself this genius who outcompeted McMahon for 83 weeks, but honestly he sounds like an idiot, and he himself tells story after story where he basically gets taken advantage of by other people (Brian Pillman, the North Korean government, etc.) because he’s kind of a gullible rube. The disconnect between that and how he perceives himself is kind of shocking.
*Bret Hart - great wrestler, total mark for himself. He’d benefit from taking himself a little less seriously, and maybe being reminded that wrestling is scripted.
*Tony Atlas - comic genius. This guy pops up in various docs and is consistently hilarious. Pat Patterson “grabbed mah peckah”. Dying. His iron sheik impersonation is also fantastic.
*Triple H - I think he’s an opportunistic douche and was overrated in the ring and on the mic, but he comes across as if he has more than two brain cells to rub together, which is a feather in his cap.
I’m sure I’ll think of more hot takes, but interested to hear if other people have been watching.
The whole series made me compelled to really find out more about Vince McMahon as a person. So much of his life was glossed over to get to his business and wrestling persona. They left a lot of meat on the bone. And some of the things Vince said without any pushback from the filmmakers, were intriguing.
It's amazing hearing wrestlers talk because you know they are always "working." They know why they are there and are usually accommodating.
Bret Hart is a mark for himself. If you ever heard Scott Hall talk about him he said, "Bret would argue for titles over money."
Trips is underated if anything. Phenomenal worker, Phenomenal character work, very good promo skills, I-uh understand-uh why-uh some people-uh don't-uh like-uh it though. I can't imagine the attitude era without Trips.
I enjoy Bishoff on his podcast and think he's smart and entertaining. But in this series they did play up smary Bishoff
The biggest problem with people like McMahon, Cornette, Bret, Tony Kahn, CM Punk is they are carnies and can’t let go of the carny mindset. I am so tired of hearing everyone’s take on things like the Montreal Screwjob since it’s such a stupid thing to fight over to begin with. I do appreciate Bischoffs take though since he usually comes across as someone who understands entertainment and the business side of wrestling and had success beating WWF.
HHH and Undertaker are two guys who people love and who I totally don’t get. Might just be my blind spot, but I never found ‘Taker particularly interesting in the ring or on the mic. He seems like a pretty cool, level-headed guy from his interviews, though.
Undertaker was popular because he had a gimmick that was really cool to kids, and he embodied it enough that it never came across as cringe. And then he kept it well into the era where every single wrestler was "MUSCLE DUDE #12" with no ability to distinguish them beyond their boring personalities (like HHH).
Watching him and Kane do wild shit in the ring is inherently more interesting than almost anything from the post-Attitude era, and it was strong enough to carry him through his retarded Biker gimmick.
Add in that he was never revealed to be controversial or difficult to work with, so nobody ever had a reason to hate him personally.
Kane is such an underrated character and worker. I still don't think people really appreciate what he did in the WWE
We are only just getting to the point where Wrestling fans feel safe even admitting to existing without feeling embarrassed, so it'll be sometime yet before people can come around to "the goofy gimmicks were actually the best fucking part."
Unfortunately, in order to reach that level we also had to let in a lot of CM Punk types who jam it full of wokeism and people embarrassed to be seen as non-progressive. So its a mixed bag.
Plus Taker is a born-again Christian and a Trump voter/donor in real life.
Yeah, the former surprised me too, even if it did happen basically as his career ended.
Mark Calloway was one of the most ardent supporters of kayfabe for most of his career. He made that one documentary a few years ago about his coming back from injury. And that was pretty much the point at which he dropped kayfabe.
Yes, he was a very private man until he retired.
And I have to say it--it's spelled "Calaway." Not a common spelling, but that's the name.
Okay, noted.
Undertaker was so good that he was able to pull off the character of "undead MMA biker wizard" all the way into 2022.
With a theme song by Limp Bizkit no less
As a kid Undertaker was my favorite because I was retarded edgelord who liked 'evil' characters. But when I learned a little how the industry worked and heard that he'd work his ass off to put people over and better the industry instead of just try to make it all about him, he remained my favorite.
I get subjective taste. A lot of Taker matches are his entrances. I quite like his style. Mark Calloway does seem less carny in retirement which is weird since he was so protective of kayfabe as a wrestler.
As a kid i literally thought he had supernatural powers lol. And the announcers like Heenan would really sell him being a dead man. You didn’t like the entrance? Even with the druids?
If you think too much about it The Undertaker is such a vague gimmick. Is he supposed to be dead? Why does he have powers? Why are those powers controling lightning
lol. So true. As a life long hulkamaniac I was scared for Hogan when they had their first match. Paul Bearer was the perfect manager for him. Sucks he died before podcasts blew up. I’d love to hear a 5 hour podcast with Taker and Bearer going over old times. Yoko too
Bearer would be enjoyable because of how many promotions he was in and how long he was in the business
Life long wrestling fan but cancelled Netflix so haven’t seen it. I still watch the current product but my favorite time as a fan was 80s through ruthless aggression and I happily watch stuff from that timeframe over and over. Is the documentary any good? Vince did some nasty stuff but it sounds like his accuser was ok with it until she stopped getting paid.
I think the current product is definitely better than pg era stuff. I do love how endless articles about how the attitude era wasn’t as good as you thought or another article whining about how offensive past wrestling was written by 20 year olds constantly pop up
From the lawsuit itself, she was getting forced to do those things far before she was getting paid the millions, as those came with the NDA that Vince made her sign so she wouldn't sue, but like Vince always does, he tried to cheap out and this time it actually cost him
The current product is absolutely amazing, but that's because Vince literally can't act in it anymore. I think what people realized a long time ago, and the reason AEW even exists, was because the PG era was so bad
I don't remember if it was in the lawsuit but I think it was where the employees kept going up to her and asking something like what the hell do you do around here anyways? And they had to move her to another position since she was holding up a slot that is needed for an actual lawyer. (iirc IANAL read the lawsuit yourself.)
and she claims was texted by Brock who tells her to film herself pissing and she did and sent it to him.
People quit the fry line at McDonalds for less. How about just say no and quit your fucking job? But nope, kept going in spite the mental health decline and whatever. I don't want to go long but that's my issue with her lawsuit, it only mattered when she stopped getting paid? Not exactly a victim in my book. More like an on-the-books whore.
Exactly, the lawsuit tried to frame it like she had no choice but to work there, that she was an innocent naïve virgin who didn't know what it meant for her boss to invite her over to his house, etc. Then it tries to frame it like this is about justice and standing up for victims but she never went to the police, never told anybody and ultimately never cared to sue him until the paychecks bounced. Vince is probably a scumbag, but she doesn't come out of this looking any better.
Yea I like the current product for sure but like I mentioned, 80s through ruthless aggression will always be my favorite timeframe. Still watch and enjoy but haven’t enjoyed it as much since then. HHH is doing great things though and bringing back some edginess is good
I don't think it was just being PG it was the lack of consistent storytelling and Vince's weird booking. Like ending the Taker's streak no one seems happy with it and it didn't serve anybody. Vince just did it to swerve the crowd.
Agreed. Attitude era Raw was on another level. The Rock’s heel turn and rise to the top, Austin vs Vince, random goofy shit like Val Venis almost getting his dick chopped off…holy shit it was amazing. That and the era in the mid ‘80s where everyone was coked and roided out of their minds, leading to some of the greatest promos in recorded history, were magic. I don’t think that magic can ever be recreated.
Me choppy choppy peepee.
People who weren't around for the Attitude era don't understand how much wrestling was in the zeitgeist then. They were pulling in huge rating numbers of 5 and six shares of the audience. Nowdays a 3 share is unheard of. People are still wearing NWO and DX shirts.
Being a kid in the 80s and a teen/early 20s for attitude/ruthless aggression was awesome. Promos were amazing. “Waiting in the back with Mean Gene”. Also loved Monsoon and Jessie the Body or Heenan.
It's hard to separate the Golden Era of WWF from my childhood nostalgia. I feel like as a wrestling fan we are always chasing that high of marking out when we thought wrestling was real as kids.
Man, this analogy is perfect. Due to age and due to the evolution of the product, I will never again experience the emotions wrestling made me experience as a kid…but you still keep watching, hoping something somehow magically makes you mark out the way you did as a kid.
Watching savage and steamboat blow off their feud at wrestlemania iii when I was 10 years old was easily the highlight of my year. Heart was pounding, adrenaline was pumping. If I watched it now, I’d probably appreciate the athleticism but be too jaded to enjoy it beyond that. And in any case, that angle and that match, or anything like it, would never happen today.
Amazing match. And I loved Hogan vs Andre. After the Steambiat match it was hilarious how Ventura kept ranting about Savage pinning Steamboat when the ref was knocked out
I came close with Cody winning at Mania this year
Yea. I mean I can accept that today’s athleticism is much better but I love the over the top gimmicks and promos. Plus, like you said it was amazing to watch it and think it’s real. Like I was devastated when Andre ripped Hogan’s shirt and challenged him for the title. Furious when Hogan got cheated on Saturday Night Main Event against Andre
I thought it was okay. It goes out of it's way to paint McMahon in a positive light and skims over his personal life. It was more of a history of the WWE through McMahon's eyes than a McMahon biography. Which is a shame because it suggested a lot of interesting hints about McMahon's life.
Haven't watched it yet but Bill Simmons did a segment on this documentary in one of his recent podcasts. I guess his company made it or he's at least involved somehow. Might be worth listening to if you're interested. He had one of the producers on iirc