I started doing research on the whole Selen/Dokibird situation when it was happening and made a post on here, but I didn’t really watch VTubers so I left it at that. After watching way too many video essays and going over too much content for my own good honestly, I’ve found my own understanding of why VTubers are so popular and why in my opinion, AI VTubers would absolutely fucking flop.
Independent VTubers and Corporate VTubers are very different because independent VTubers for the most part are just streamers, while corporate VTubers (or at least for the two biggest corporations, Hololive and Nijisanji) are also idols in addition to being VTubers, sing, take dance classes, learn Japanese, the whole nine yards. Hololive recently had a 3D concert (3D because their talents (or “livers” as the ‘official’ term wore rigs and then performed live as their VTubing personas) that was pretty much universally loved, and in general the whole phenomenon makes me think about how media is going to progress going forward.
One more thing about corporate VTubers is that every single one of them is under an NDA that forbids them from mentioning who they are to the general public. That’s why Dokibird had to be more subtle about telling people that this is where she was now, and the same reason why Kson can’t outright say that she was Coco Kiryu either, Henya the Genius can’t outright say she was Pikamee and the list goes on. I get why this is a thing, so talents can’t debut, half-ass their time as a corporate VTuber and then graduate (Japanese euphemism for leaving an idol group on good terms) from the corporation, say who they are and then get the exact same following, but in the case of what happened to Dokibird, it’s kind of important to at least be aware of VTubers’ “Past Lives/PLs” (the official term for their other accounts).
Lastly, I’ll just comment on some funny/interesting things I saw in my research, like Kson doing an IRL stream (she’s one of the few VTubers that also streams IRL on her VTuber account) with a Japanese pornstar, and also a gravure model feeding each other, feeling each other up and all that other shit, which nowadays is tame considering that was like 10 Twitch ‘metas’ ago. She also won a contest to be in the newest Yakuza (which is where the Kiryu in Coco Kiryu came from, and why Coco had the same birthday as Kazuma Kiryu), and shows up as a bartender, while voicing herself in both English and Japanese.
In general, most of the female Japanese VTubers who either have IRL channels or shown who they are IRL are all like 9-10/10s, while in the West it’s a mixed bag. There’s more I could say, but this is just my observations having gone really deep into VTubing as a whole while not meaning to.
Edit: Forgot to mention the whole “why AI VTubers would be a failure” thing. For the most part, it comes down to the fact that only corporations would want to use AI for VTubing, and in addition, live reactions to chat, concerts and all of the “outside of just streaming” stuff would be why it wouldn’t be able to work, plus someone has to go and run the stream and be able to react as quickly as a human so that the AI sounds human, and we aren’t there yet, it would be too damn obvious. I get the reasoning for why some of the people here think it would be appealing to the corporations, but as AI is right now, too much work for not enough reward, plus the parasocial relationship aspect just seems like it wouldn’t be as effective if it’s a corporation using AI to do things.
“Idol” culture is completely retarded.
I looked up ‘Kson’ on YouTube, and Ironmouse reacting to a clip of that was like the 5th video down
To be fair, that was more her being a (admittedly flirty and at times vaguely thot-y) random dipshit with friends she met through the Yakuza auditions. Youtube pushed that into the meta that lead to a lot of reactions and reposting of the clip.
(What? Biased? Me? No! No I don't have a Kson plushie on my desk. No. No... it's by my TV.)
Just a couple of notes/thoughts:
Firstly, 'livers' is a term used exclusively by Nijisanji (or people who came up from that fanbase), with 'talents' or just 'streamers' being more common outside. This is worth knowing as a few times Niji fans have tried to cause trouble to other companies and been outed by using that term.
Second past lives/PLs are, in my general experience, treated very similar to kayfabe in wrestling - where we know its fake, the information is out there, but politely ignored to keep things fun. Generally it only comes up a lot when people are graduating, were fired, or come back from either of the above. Beyond Doki, notable examples include Rica Ch. (when Hololives Yozora Mel was fired due to a contract problem), Mikeneko (who I've seen referred to as 'the Amber Heard of Japan' and former Hololive and VShojo performer) and a string of Nijisanji refugees such as Sayu, Matarakan and Dearsqn.
In essence, I think a large part of why vtubing has blown up is it is rather like the old days of the Internet where anonymity let people say what they really think, and reach a larger audience without having to be the nephew of some media boss. Its also a field littered with wholesome underdog and rags-to-riches stories, which can be compelling in their own right. What other field could elevate a bedridden girl from 'staring at the ceiling, waiting to die' to 'the biggest female streamer in Twitch (by watch time, iirc)?
As for ai vtubers, Neuro-sama does well and is popular, but she's more of a technical curiosity with a very smart turtle man doing the coding. I doubt we live in a world where corporate interests could get half a far as they have.
Also, gmmf, welcome to the rabbit hole.
Neuro-sama is a treasure, and I love seeing all the cool stuff that comes out of her. I highly recommend just watching some highlight clips for those curious.
Check out based yabbit pipkin Pippa
Menhera Feed and Seed
What is the difference between a Vtuber and a YouTuber?
VTuber is more of a style of live-streamer that uses an avatar instead of their person (can be 2d or 3d). They can be a YouTuber as well but use YouTube predominantly as a repository for recordings of their live streams.
VTubers use an avatar instead of their face, hence the name Virtual YouTuber. I forgot what the software is that converts stuff from facecam to the avatar is, but it’s primarily the fact that they have an avatar instead of their face.
Oh. Thanks! Didn’t realize the explanation was that simple
There's several programs that can do it, but the most common is VTube Studio. Free on steam, if anyone wants to mess around with it.
most commonly used software is Live2D, but corporate Vtubers get custom-made 3D models if they get popular enough
i just wanna watch cute girls being schizo
I'll be fair and point out that the entire 'Past Lives' of alot of Vtubers used to be rather verboten to mention, but has become less stigmatized over time. There's aleast one stream with Dokibird and Fillian where Doki is basically 'fuck it, we ball', much to Fillian's shock.
It does lead to some hilarity, though, especially with the Vshoujo talents.
I don't understand the stigma at all. No one freaks out because James Bond wasn't actually a real person and instead was portrayed by Sean Connery and others.
It strikes a little of an intentional industry trope to deliberately get in the way of the actresses trying to get work outside their corporate taskmasters. Same way early video game companies would refuse to put developer credits or even make "who worked on this" publicly available.
Pretty much. Most Vtubers are basically corpos - it's only recently that we're starting to see more big-name 'independants' or corporations that just don't give a fuck.
Well from corpos stand point of course you don't want to divert your viewers attention and donations to your talents personal accounts after you used your corporate resources to promote them under your character ips. some might be still active or have contents not compatible with the idol images the company wants to cater to, some might have face reveals that might attract stalkers or privacy concerns, many such immersion breaking issues
I like watching subtitled clips of Korone because she's funny, joyful, and I don't see anything resembling politics from her. Don't need to know anything about her when she's not wearing the dog avatar.
Don't care. Pure thottery. I'm no fan of vtubers, but if I did have any interest in following any of them it would be those who are decidedly NOT this.
(With this energy) Welcome to the rabbit hole motherfucker! /s
Nice breakdown though I'd say it's not universal as there are exceptions to the rule to not knowing their IRL identity but a weird phenomena where the audience will play along being ignorant. A big example of this is Calliope from Hololive where the audience KNOWS she's Demondice but will never say it and go along with them being 'seperate'. Then there's the 'it was a secret?' of someone like Hime Hajime where that one was outed day one....by the talent herself..that the audience just calls her IRL identity 'grandma'
I don't think AI Vtubers would work baring notable exceptions. I do believe, however, there will be a HUGE rise in them not from the entertainment side but corporate side as now they can have a AI cute Vtuber apologise for their fuck ups and that doesn't have any baggage itself compared to their current PR teams. Expect a cute Vtuber to apologise for why there's an oil spill in a sea soon.
In terms of ones that showed themselves IRL, they all tend to be quite attractive as a lot of them aren't that far from their models. Hell some have cosplayed as them I remember Kson cosplaying as herself when she announced joining. I've noticed with the Indies and to some extent Vshojo they are not shy to do IRL maybe as a way to differentiate themselves from other corporate agencies? Hard to say.
Vshojo functionally is just a legal team, merch warehouse and support staff for their talents, plus Projekt Melody is one of their most popular talents (for those who don’t remember, she debuted before COVID and there was an uproar from the Twitch girls back then about it) and streams on Chaturbate with some regularity, so it makes sense.
Pretty much, their biggest controversies was when they TRIED to be a standard agency. Since they stopped and their more....'marmite/vegemite' members left, they actually have a much better reputation especially with the former Nijisanji talents joining as they had NO support with Nijisanji.
Yeah it was funny all the slut streamers mad at Melody, because she uses an Avatar but main reason she's popular is she actually ENGAGES with her audience that some of the clips are on YouTube. Was funny her being teased for it by a HEAVILY medicated Ironmouse..
There's a few I know have cosplayed themselves at events, but they tend to be indies. Shylilly and Numi I remember.
Also at least one member of Hololive is a cosplayer and has cosplayed one of her peers, but that's more because she has this whole thing with doing Azur Lane cosplays.
I would theorize that the attractiveness of the female performer is directly proportional to how likely she'll do IRL reveals.
Some sure, I think there's some where there's conditions that mean they'll probably NEVER do IRL (Ironmouse for example thanks to her medical condition), while for others it might be because they enjoy the separation between them and their audience more because of parasocial relationships.
I think a key thing is some USED to be IRL streamers before being Vtubers so it's more a 're-reveal' than anything new. Also noticed compared to ethots, the majority of them are a lot more moderately dressed in IRL streams unless they are cosplaying.
I think in some cases the reveal is also to head off people searching for the info and getting too intrusive. Like saying "yep, this is me, stop scaring my parents"
Yeah some of them have REALLY parasocial fans that need to back off and this is hopefully a way to end the delusion at least.
...or you could go the Pipkin Pippa route of saying you have so many guns you have a bathroom gun and firmly believe in castle doctrine
I find it hilarious that I basically got into Vtubers via someone posting a Pipkin Pippa clip about her asking the FBI for a DD AR-15 to go shoot up a walmart with.
Naturally, I had to find out who the hell that was. And here we are...
y'know, I was only thinking of that earlier. Between the bathroom gun story, the mold, and the tales of her friend Kirsche's mother, it gets both hilarious and intense, and I pity the fool that tries anything with them :D
[edit: I wish fishman hadn't nixed the idea of Pippa doing an AR building stream, though I imagine Youtube wouldn't have been as enthusiastic about it as me]
Phase friend Sleepy did a few AK streams on twitch. I think they are still up. Pippa's niece, Ms Elfinpsyop, may do an arms stream soon.
Despite her retardation, Pippa is still my oshi.
I don't understand why anyone would watch this shit
It's no different from watching let's plays or vlog streams, just with anime avatars
I don't watch them either. I prefer to actually play games