You cannot pretend decades of feminism never happened and you cannot pretend that marriage in America is a net positive for men.
Evangelicals are trying to shame men into doing what they want while people like me who are MGTOW are just telling you the current state of the sexual marketplace.
The choice is for individual men to make.
Men have to choose between wading through the cesspool that is modern women and accruing a huge potential risk to their finances and mental health for the sake of furthering the their bloodline or they can see what a raw deal marriage is currently in western society and how terrible modern women are and say just fuck it and stay single.
There is no magical solution I can offer you.
Evangelicals are demanding men self sacrifice while people like me say that you are free to make your own choice when it comes to deciding if marriage is worth it for YOU personally.
I am not a collectivist. I will not self sacrifice myself for a civilization that hates me.
I personally think marriage is not worth it and thus I made my own choice.
Evangelical clowns would try to shame me and browbeat me into marrying.
This is what I find repulsive.
I personally think that individual men should not self sacrifice for a society that hates them.
To add to this, leftists are also demanding that men self sacrifice. Main difference is what areas they tend to target for sacrifice, but it still adds up to the same effect: Use up most of the male population so that those at the top can reap the benefits, while claiming that it's all for the "good of society".
And both do everything they can to discourage and shame a man's passion for life and to break his spirit.
Not that this is an especially new insight around here. That similar and familiar tone is precisely what first launched Gamersgate, MGTOW, and similar developments in the first place, where men (and some women) started to take notice to all of the manipulative bullshit going on at the top.
Evangelical clowns would try to shame me and browbeat me into marrying.
And MGTOW type clowns would try and shame you for daring to try and improve society somewhat, by having a family and attempting to give this world a next generation, and then browbeat you into never trying at all.
This wasn't an attack saying they are wrong in all their beliefs and criticisms of society. I've been an anti-feminist since before most people here were born. Only that they are much the same as the Evangelicals in this regard, only in the other direction.
The thing the MGTOWs are right about is that marriage isn't really a marriage in the sense that the woman submits to the husband whose authority is accepted, because any time the woman wants she can appeal to the State, and the State will either drag the man out in chains or put a bullet in his head. And everyone knows this.
I remember an old episode of the original CSI where they're investigating some S&M group, and the main CSI guy says something like "The fact of the matter is the submissive ultimately has all the power, because when he says the safe word everything stops." Which is how all modern marriages (including the ones where the wife claims to be submissive to the husband) function in practice. And few men upon discovering that's how things work want to sign up to such an arrangement.
The Evangelicals have internalized too much leftism to offer a solution to this problem, and no one else in the mainstream even sees it as a problem.
They aren't wrong about almost anything they say, almost at all. I simply disagree with what they decide to do with that knowledge, and how they con unsuspecting men into their "movement" of just giving up.
Because for most of them its not forging their own path (aka "going your own way") and bettering themselves/their life regardless of women, its just giving up and then justifying it.
It's not so much that they encourage men to "give up". That's more in the realm of inceldom circles to be honest.
One small issue I've had with MGTOW is sort of built into the name. It emphasizes men to seek out their own path, which is good, but seemingly does so with a small emphasis on going out and being on their own. Not just from society and its bullshitty manipulations, but from other people in general.
Encouraging men to stand on their own two feet and stand up for themselves is one thing, but a man should not be isolating and withholding himself from good and reliable friends, family, and community either. So long as a man doesn't allow them to completely rule over him either (IE, evangelicals, leftists, collectivists).
Not that I'm saying that MGTOW actively encourages self-isolating behavior, but it is a subtle vibe that I've picked up every now and then, based on how a few more dedicated followers of the movement tend to word things. I could be totally mistaken though. It's been a while since I've checked out those communities.
You are trying to equate MGTOWS telling men to make their own informed rational choices and the evangelicals shaming men into getting married as the same thing.
I don't care if a guy gets married of his own volition.
The evangelicals seethe if a guy chooses not to get married, I don't care if a man chooses to get married.
Key difference here.
No, I'm criticizing the movement telling men to just "drop out lol, it ain't worth it man" as just as short sighted as the one saying "dude just wing it, it'll all work out lol."
MGTOWs seethe just as much at men successfully being married and managing to navigate the shitshow that is modern women, I've dealt with it since the "movement" was founded.
There is no easy solution to this current mess.
You cannot pretend decades of feminism never happened and you cannot pretend that marriage in America is a net positive for men.
Evangelicals are trying to shame men into doing what they want while people like me who are MGTOW are just telling you the current state of the sexual marketplace.
The choice is for individual men to make.
Men have to choose between wading through the cesspool that is modern women and accruing a huge potential risk to their finances and mental health for the sake of furthering the their bloodline or they can see what a raw deal marriage is currently in western society and how terrible modern women are and say just fuck it and stay single.
There is no magical solution I can offer you.
Evangelicals are demanding men self sacrifice while people like me say that you are free to make your own choice when it comes to deciding if marriage is worth it for YOU personally.
I am not a collectivist. I will not self sacrifice myself for a civilization that hates me.
I personally think marriage is not worth it and thus I made my own choice.
Evangelical clowns would try to shame me and browbeat me into marrying.
This is what I find repulsive.
I personally think that individual men should not self sacrifice for a society that hates them.
To add to this, leftists are also demanding that men self sacrifice. Main difference is what areas they tend to target for sacrifice, but it still adds up to the same effect: Use up most of the male population so that those at the top can reap the benefits, while claiming that it's all for the "good of society".
And both do everything they can to discourage and shame a man's passion for life and to break his spirit.
Not that this is an especially new insight around here. That similar and familiar tone is precisely what first launched Gamersgate, MGTOW, and similar developments in the first place, where men (and some women) started to take notice to all of the manipulative bullshit going on at the top.
And MGTOW type clowns would try and shame you for daring to try and improve society somewhat, by having a family and attempting to give this world a next generation, and then browbeat you into never trying at all.
This wasn't an attack saying they are wrong in all their beliefs and criticisms of society. I've been an anti-feminist since before most people here were born. Only that they are much the same as the Evangelicals in this regard, only in the other direction.
The thing the MGTOWs are right about is that marriage isn't really a marriage in the sense that the woman submits to the husband whose authority is accepted, because any time the woman wants she can appeal to the State, and the State will either drag the man out in chains or put a bullet in his head. And everyone knows this.
I remember an old episode of the original CSI where they're investigating some S&M group, and the main CSI guy says something like "The fact of the matter is the submissive ultimately has all the power, because when he says the safe word everything stops." Which is how all modern marriages (including the ones where the wife claims to be submissive to the husband) function in practice. And few men upon discovering that's how things work want to sign up to such an arrangement.
The Evangelicals have internalized too much leftism to offer a solution to this problem, and no one else in the mainstream even sees it as a problem.
They aren't wrong about almost anything they say, almost at all. I simply disagree with what they decide to do with that knowledge, and how they con unsuspecting men into their "movement" of just giving up.
Because for most of them its not forging their own path (aka "going your own way") and bettering themselves/their life regardless of women, its just giving up and then justifying it.
It's not so much that they encourage men to "give up". That's more in the realm of inceldom circles to be honest.
One small issue I've had with MGTOW is sort of built into the name. It emphasizes men to seek out their own path, which is good, but seemingly does so with a small emphasis on going out and being on their own. Not just from society and its bullshitty manipulations, but from other people in general.
Encouraging men to stand on their own two feet and stand up for themselves is one thing, but a man should not be isolating and withholding himself from good and reliable friends, family, and community either. So long as a man doesn't allow them to completely rule over him either (IE, evangelicals, leftists, collectivists).
Not that I'm saying that MGTOW actively encourages self-isolating behavior, but it is a subtle vibe that I've picked up every now and then, based on how a few more dedicated followers of the movement tend to word things. I could be totally mistaken though. It's been a while since I've checked out those communities.
You are trying to equate MGTOWS telling men to make their own informed rational choices and the evangelicals shaming men into getting married as the same thing.
I don't care if a guy gets married of his own volition.
The evangelicals seethe if a guy chooses not to get married, I don't care if a man chooses to get married. Key difference here.
No, I'm criticizing the movement telling men to just "drop out lol, it ain't worth it man" as just as short sighted as the one saying "dude just wing it, it'll all work out lol."
MGTOWs seethe just as much at men successfully being married and managing to navigate the shitshow that is modern women, I've dealt with it since the "movement" was founded.
This is the truth. They hate seeing successful married men because it destroys their own narrative.