This is the natural result of their COVID policies. If you can degrade people by making them wear ineffective masks while they try to eat the shit provided food it's not exactly a massive leap to forcing people to sit in puke for five hours.
Eventually, Benson continued, the employees gave them blankets to sit on and more wipes to clean the seats.
How about you clean your own fucking plane instead of trying to force passengers to clean puke.
the pilot came down the aisle and very calmly knelt down and told the two ladies that they had two choices: They could leave the plane on their own accord and organize flights on their own dime, or they would be escorted off the plane by security and placed on a no fly list
Yes, but in this case I think it was a fairly thinly veiled attempt to avoid paying the penalties for not boarding passengers prescribed by the DOT and most airlines contracts of carriage.
If you are denied boarding and it's not due to something outside of the airline's control like weather, they are responsible for getting you to your destination, including booking a flight with another airline at their expense if necessary, or putting you on a later flight and paying for food and accommodations as well as a penalty based on the value of your ticket and the time difference between your original scheduled arrival and when they actually get you there. Vomit covered seats is a maintenance issue and would fall under this provision.
This is why when a flight is overbooked you see the airline offer sometimes over $1,000 in flight credits to people willing to volunteer to take a later flight. If no one volunteers and the airline has to officially bump you against your will, they're responsible for all of the above and the payment to you is in cash, not a credit to be used with them.
By threatening the passengers with being removed by security, the pilot abused his authority in an attempt to either trick the passengers into "voluntarily" giving up their seats and forfeiting their rights or falsely turn it into a security issue in an attempt to exempt the airline from paying the penalties.
Luckily they've got other passengers as witnesses to vouch that they weren't doing anything disruptive that would merit being removed as a security issue.
Had they filmed it they'd be in an even better position, and if they had known their rights under DOT regulations and the contract of carriage and asserted them and accused the pilot of attempting to subvert them by creating a fake security issue on film it would have been even better.
By threatening the passengers with being removed by security, the pilot abused his authority in an attempt to either trick the passengers into "voluntarily" giving up their seats and forfeiting their rights or falsely turn it into a security issue in an attempt to exempt the airline from paying the penalties.
But enough about Covid policies.
It is surprising we don't hear about these types of situations more, but from my experience people are always willing to take the credits without much fuss. Likely because they see big numbers and don't know that the alternative is so much more lucrative.
This is the natural result of their COVID policies
I'm not entirely sure, it actually sounds like a further extension of their 'War on Terror'. Remember when Schumer demanded that the protesters of January 6 be put on a no-fly-list?
How about you clean your own fucking plane instead of trying to force passengers to clean puke.
I doubt that it was the responsibility of those employees to clean up puke. The fault lies with Air Canada, not with the lower employees that they will no doubt try to feed to the wolves to save their pathetic skins.
Maybe not these ones. As far as I know, the plane lands, it's cleaned up, and only then do passengers board. The cleaning crew did a bad job and then left, I don't think it's the stewardesses who do that.
No, but it's on the stewardesses to recognize that an improperly cleaned seat is unusable and that it's a maintenance issue. Same with the pilot.
At that point they simply have to ask for volunteers to take a later flight and offer an incentive. If no one takes it, they involuntarily bump two people, and apply the DOT compensation rules.
Since airlines are allowed to overbook by law, they routinely have to bump people both voluntarily and involuntarily. If the aircrew didn't know what to do, they simply had to ask the gate staff, who probably do it at least once a day.
It's really simple, and the aircrew and pilot turned it into a big deal because they were trying help the airline duck its financial responsibility in this situation.
No, but it's on the stewardesses to recognize that an improperly cleaned seat is unusable and that it's a maintenance issue. Same with the pilot.
Absolutely. I think the pilot is the greater issue here, at least from what I read. When they failed no miserably during cleaning, there may not be a good solution here - it's either delaying the flight to clean it up or denying these people boarding.
I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit, but I think at least 80-90% of the fault lies with the company for not having proper procedures in place for such a situation, rather than with low-level employees.
At that point they simply have to ask for volunteers to take a later flight and offer an incentive. If no one takes it, they involuntarily bump two people, and apply the DOT compensation rules.
Yes, that is the best solution.
It's really simple, and the aircrew and pilot turned it into a big deal because they were trying help the airline duck its financial responsibility in this situation.
I'm 99% sure that they don't care about the 600 dollars or whatever that the airline would have to pay. It's not their money.
Which raises the question: is it incompetence or malice?
I'm 99% sure that they don't care about the 600 dollars or whatever that the airline would have to pay. It's not their money.
IDK, I fly a lot, and I've never seen someone get the involuntary benefits, because I've seen the airline go up to $2,000 in flight credits plus hotel and food vouchers to get a volunteer. They really don't want to pay you cash for some reason.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a mandate to avoid an involuntary bump at all costs, just like the pilots will move Heaven and Earth to push back from the gate on time even if it means sitting for an hour on the tarmac, because that's what the airline's on time percentage is based on.
Which raises the question: is it incompetence or malice?
I've worked in large organizations for most of my life, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people, when presented with an unexpected circumstance, will simply wing it, rather than call someone in authority for help. Their unnecessary split second decisions have caused all manner of havoc that would have been avoided if they had just taken a moment and reached out.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the pilot simply fell back on "the FAA says I can kick anyone I want off my plane for any reason" rather than call management and ask them what they wanted to do.
As this has now hit the internet and starting to pop up everywhere in the news, I'm sure Air Canada wishes he had reached out instead of acting on his own initiative. The only thing they're probably grateful for is that nobody had the presence of mind to film the whole thing, because that has so much more impact on the public.
IDK, I fly a lot, and I've never seen someone get the involuntary benefits, because I've seen the airline go up to $2,000 in flight credits plus hotel and food vouchers to get a volunteer. They really don't want to pay you cash for some reason.
There's probably some sort of procedure for that. But whether they'd not deny boarding to someone and instead demand that they sit in puke, that's just strange.
Though $2,000 in flight credits sounds fantastic. I'd take that in a jiffy. Unfortunately, there is barely any overbooking in the EU - I've never seen anyone being denied boarding.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a mandate to avoid an involuntary bump at all costs, just like the pilots will move Heaven and Earth to push back from the gate on time even if it means sitting for an hour on the tarmac, because that's what the airline's on time percentage is based on.
I thought it was based on arrival time. At least, I'm pretty sure it is here.
I've worked in large organizations for most of my life, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people, when presented with an unexpected circumstance, will simply wing it, rather than call someone in authority for help.
It seems like the perfect solution. Make it their problem rather than yours.
The only thing they're probably grateful for is that nobody had the presence of mind to film the whole thing, because that has so much more impact on the public.
Good point, it's not just people who are victimized by this . Though during every single flight we're told that it's not permitted to film or photograph crew or passengers without their permission. I thought it was to foil ethots, but now I'm wondering...
It's not the purview of the flight attendants. It's their job to inform the captain who should deem the aircraft not fit for dispatch if it's bad enough (which it might be given that other passengers could smell it), or otherwise have those seats blocked off.
I think another factor not mentioned is the crunch time to turn the plane around at the gate.
Corporate likely has squeezed the cleaners or the flight attendants who have to clean between flights so much that they don't have the time to properly handle any aberrations, including something as common as someone puking in their seat.
Similarly, the militancy of the flight crew likely emanates from the fact that they are squeezed by corporate as well. All they care about is that the flight pushes off from the gate within some allotted window.
I'm not entirely sure, it actually sounds like a further extension of their 'War on Terror'. Remember when Schumer demanded that the protesters of January 6 be put on a no-fly-list?
Using it to threaten political enemies has quite a history, but making airline employees the foot soldiers seems to be a much more recent phenomenon.
I doubt that it was the responsibility of those employees to clean up puke.
Of course not; this bullshit starts at the top. It's not their responsibility to bring the passengers wipes in the expectation that they would clean the seats themselves either though. Don't do that shit unless you're willing to clean it yourself.
The fault lies with Air Canada, not with the lower employees that they will no doubt try to feed to the wolves to save their pathetic skins.
Each party is responsible to the extent that they're responsible. No doubt Air Canada will try to throw those employees under the bus, but that pilot is just as deserving of being canned as the CEO.
Any time this sort of thing happens, make sure you immediately take out your phone at at least start recording the conversations. This is so much less evocative because there is no voice or video of it happening - and NPCs ignore everything that they don't see on the telly.
and NPCs ignore everything that they don't see on the telly.
Considering the way they react to things like Veritas, even it being on camera doesn't stop the dismissal. They can just claim "no context" or "editted" and then its gone.
Not that you shouldn't record it, but video isn't a slam dunk defense either sadly.
I wouldn't even have to be kicked off. If I saw one (let alone two) seats covered in sick I'd be off the plane and calling my credit card company for a charge back.
This is the natural result of their COVID policies. If you can degrade people by making them wear ineffective masks while they try to eat the shit provided food it's not exactly a massive leap to forcing people to sit in puke for five hours.
How about you clean your own fucking plane instead of trying to force passengers to clean puke.
These people are drunk on power.
Yes, but in this case I think it was a fairly thinly veiled attempt to avoid paying the penalties for not boarding passengers prescribed by the DOT and most airlines contracts of carriage.
If you are denied boarding and it's not due to something outside of the airline's control like weather, they are responsible for getting you to your destination, including booking a flight with another airline at their expense if necessary, or putting you on a later flight and paying for food and accommodations as well as a penalty based on the value of your ticket and the time difference between your original scheduled arrival and when they actually get you there. Vomit covered seats is a maintenance issue and would fall under this provision.
This is why when a flight is overbooked you see the airline offer sometimes over $1,000 in flight credits to people willing to volunteer to take a later flight. If no one volunteers and the airline has to officially bump you against your will, they're responsible for all of the above and the payment to you is in cash, not a credit to be used with them.
By threatening the passengers with being removed by security, the pilot abused his authority in an attempt to either trick the passengers into "voluntarily" giving up their seats and forfeiting their rights or falsely turn it into a security issue in an attempt to exempt the airline from paying the penalties.
Luckily they've got other passengers as witnesses to vouch that they weren't doing anything disruptive that would merit being removed as a security issue.
Had they filmed it they'd be in an even better position, and if they had known their rights under DOT regulations and the contract of carriage and asserted them and accused the pilot of attempting to subvert them by creating a fake security issue on film it would have been even better.
But enough about Covid policies.
It is surprising we don't hear about these types of situations more, but from my experience people are always willing to take the credits without much fuss. Likely because they see big numbers and don't know that the alternative is so much more lucrative.
I'm not entirely sure, it actually sounds like a further extension of their 'War on Terror'. Remember when Schumer demanded that the protesters of January 6 be put on a no-fly-list?
I doubt that it was the responsibility of those employees to clean up puke. The fault lies with Air Canada, not with the lower employees that they will no doubt try to feed to the wolves to save their pathetic skins.
Maybe not these ones. As far as I know, the plane lands, it's cleaned up, and only then do passengers board. The cleaning crew did a bad job and then left, I don't think it's the stewardesses who do that.
No, but it's on the stewardesses to recognize that an improperly cleaned seat is unusable and that it's a maintenance issue. Same with the pilot.
At that point they simply have to ask for volunteers to take a later flight and offer an incentive. If no one takes it, they involuntarily bump two people, and apply the DOT compensation rules.
Since airlines are allowed to overbook by law, they routinely have to bump people both voluntarily and involuntarily. If the aircrew didn't know what to do, they simply had to ask the gate staff, who probably do it at least once a day.
It's really simple, and the aircrew and pilot turned it into a big deal because they were trying help the airline duck its financial responsibility in this situation.
Absolutely. I think the pilot is the greater issue here, at least from what I read. When they failed no miserably during cleaning, there may not be a good solution here - it's either delaying the flight to clean it up or denying these people boarding.
I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit, but I think at least 80-90% of the fault lies with the company for not having proper procedures in place for such a situation, rather than with low-level employees.
Yes, that is the best solution.
I'm 99% sure that they don't care about the 600 dollars or whatever that the airline would have to pay. It's not their money.
Which raises the question: is it incompetence or malice?
IDK, I fly a lot, and I've never seen someone get the involuntary benefits, because I've seen the airline go up to $2,000 in flight credits plus hotel and food vouchers to get a volunteer. They really don't want to pay you cash for some reason.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a mandate to avoid an involuntary bump at all costs, just like the pilots will move Heaven and Earth to push back from the gate on time even if it means sitting for an hour on the tarmac, because that's what the airline's on time percentage is based on.
I've worked in large organizations for most of my life, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people, when presented with an unexpected circumstance, will simply wing it, rather than call someone in authority for help. Their unnecessary split second decisions have caused all manner of havoc that would have been avoided if they had just taken a moment and reached out.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the pilot simply fell back on "the FAA says I can kick anyone I want off my plane for any reason" rather than call management and ask them what they wanted to do.
As this has now hit the internet and starting to pop up everywhere in the news, I'm sure Air Canada wishes he had reached out instead of acting on his own initiative. The only thing they're probably grateful for is that nobody had the presence of mind to film the whole thing, because that has so much more impact on the public.
There's probably some sort of procedure for that. But whether they'd not deny boarding to someone and instead demand that they sit in puke, that's just strange.
Though $2,000 in flight credits sounds fantastic. I'd take that in a jiffy. Unfortunately, there is barely any overbooking in the EU - I've never seen anyone being denied boarding.
I thought it was based on arrival time. At least, I'm pretty sure it is here.
It seems like the perfect solution. Make it their problem rather than yours.
Good point, it's not just people who are victimized by this . Though during every single flight we're told that it's not permitted to film or photograph crew or passengers without their permission. I thought it was to foil ethots, but now I'm wondering...
It's not the purview of the flight attendants. It's their job to inform the captain who should deem the aircraft not fit for dispatch if it's bad enough (which it might be given that other passengers could smell it), or otherwise have those seats blocked off.
I think another factor not mentioned is the crunch time to turn the plane around at the gate.
Corporate likely has squeezed the cleaners or the flight attendants who have to clean between flights so much that they don't have the time to properly handle any aberrations, including something as common as someone puking in their seat.
Similarly, the militancy of the flight crew likely emanates from the fact that they are squeezed by corporate as well. All they care about is that the flight pushes off from the gate within some allotted window.
Using it to threaten political enemies has quite a history, but making airline employees the foot soldiers seems to be a much more recent phenomenon.
Of course not; this bullshit starts at the top. It's not their responsibility to bring the passengers wipes in the expectation that they would clean the seats themselves either though. Don't do that shit unless you're willing to clean it yourself.
Each party is responsible to the extent that they're responsible. No doubt Air Canada will try to throw those employees under the bus, but that pilot is just as deserving of being canned as the CEO.
Pilot should have just invoked sky law.
Ladies and gentlemen, the "free world".
Any time this sort of thing happens, make sure you immediately take out your phone at at least start recording the conversations. This is so much less evocative because there is no voice or video of it happening - and NPCs ignore everything that they don't see on the telly.
Considering the way they react to things like Veritas, even it being on camera doesn't stop the dismissal. They can just claim "no context" or "editted" and then its gone.
Not that you shouldn't record it, but video isn't a slam dunk defense either sadly.
Geez, it's not even a crown corporation any more.
I wouldn't even have to be kicked off. If I saw one (let alone two) seats covered in sick I'd be off the plane and calling my credit card company for a charge back.
This is Canada we're talking about. With WestJet being the only other game in town as far as major airlines that would be a pretty big risk.
Not that things are much better in the states, where they would probably collude to all blacklist you for not sitting in barf.