From a historical perspective, I 100% understand why larger families were often a positive or useful thing. I am far from unaware of that. I just have trouble seeing it as being consistently ideal in modern times, particularly for me personally.
For me it has nothing to do with selfishness or hedonism like it might be for some, so much as recognizing my limitations in how thinly I can spread myself, emotionally and mentally, across multiple things on a regular basis.
And I'd rather not muck things up for my kids simply because I and my partner decided to have more kids than we could manage.
Even while I'm not exactly religious myself, I agree and share the same overall sentiment.
I'll admit for a long time I was not open to having children and raising a family. That was when I was young and frankly, immature. Lacking in confidence, unsure of myself, etc.
In recent years I've developed a stronger appreciation for how much purpose, meaning, and importance there is in becoming a husband and father. It's not a responsibility to be taken lightly, but it's also not a sort of duty to shirk from either. It's also not something that will work for everyone in the same way either.
In the end, each man must seek out his own path, based on what has been laid out before him.
I mean, its a concern you have to think about when making choices about your life and the lives of others.
If you can't afford a house that can comfortably bed that many kids, then you shouldn't have that many. Making a bunch of kids grow up 3+ to a room just so you can have your epic big family is far more selfish, because that's a lot of misery you are piling on them. And that's just a single consideration you have to take.
You shouldn't over think things because you will always convince yourself out of them, but having actual realistic understandings of money, space and time should always be on the table. If not for yourself, then for the fucking kids who have to live through your consequences.
Thanks, and you're right. That's a good way to word what I was trying to say.
It's something of a fine balance. Like it IS a worrisome state of affairs with just how many perfectly successful and happy people are deliberately choosing to never have kids.
But like you said, trying to go too far into the opposite extreme isn't necessarily going to lead to a healthy situation either.
And you're right. I used to try to talk myself out of the idea entirely. And for a long time, it worked, because I didn't understand or fathom why I'd want to take on such a responsibility. Eventually I came to understand how important that responsibility can be. How meaningful. And that it's something to work towards and aim for, within one's ability.
There is a reason why most parents start by accident and then never end up regretting it. Because its easy to convince yourself out of it forever, logically it makes sense to never, but once you just jump in it works itself out and you find a way to make it happen for them.
But most people on "our side" of this "culture war" don't think logistics. They just say to pump out kids and never consider that society is built around making sure you don't do that. We can't just have mom quit her job to be a housewife and then create our big family, not without a lot of luck and an amazing job, even if that is the best way to do it. Its just not feasible and would only create suffering for everyone to do it. So its up to all of us to do the best we can, not some pipe dream utopia.
Aye. It's a very easy thing to put off or avoid, until suddenly a person realizes they've just about run out of time.
I think what helped me put things in perspective was to realize just how integral raising a child can be just as part of the overall human experience. It's part of the very essence of biological life itself.
But even so, like you say, there are a lot of variables to factor in, both on the small scale and the large scale, and I think you put it far more eloquently than I can.
...No, I'm not. For me it's not even remotely about prioritizing my own wants or needs. Hell, it's not even about freeing myself of burdens, stress, or anguish. It's straight up recognizing that I have some limitations that I may try my best to manage and overcome but are still going to impact how much I can effectively do. And I know my limitations far far better than you do.
I'm open to having children with the right woman. I'm just not going to invite myself to having so many that I know will only lead to a broken home and a dysfunctional family. Again, I'm talking about me personally, not everyone else.
Thanks man, I appreciate that. Both you and Adamrises are right. And that's mostly what I was trying to convey.
I mean I would like if more people would at least aspire to trying to raise a family with at least one or two healthy kids. But even so, for some people, try as they might, even that may be too much for them to handle.
From a historical perspective, I 100% understand why larger families were often a positive or useful thing. I am far from unaware of that. I just have trouble seeing it as being consistently ideal in modern times, particularly for me personally.
For me it has nothing to do with selfishness or hedonism like it might be for some, so much as recognizing my limitations in how thinly I can spread myself, emotionally and mentally, across multiple things on a regular basis.
And I'd rather not muck things up for my kids simply because I and my partner decided to have more kids than we could manage.
Even while I'm not exactly religious myself, I agree and share the same overall sentiment.
I'll admit for a long time I was not open to having children and raising a family. That was when I was young and frankly, immature. Lacking in confidence, unsure of myself, etc.
In recent years I've developed a stronger appreciation for how much purpose, meaning, and importance there is in becoming a husband and father. It's not a responsibility to be taken lightly, but it's also not a sort of duty to shirk from either. It's also not something that will work for everyone in the same way either.
In the end, each man must seek out his own path, based on what has been laid out before him.
I mean, its a concern you have to think about when making choices about your life and the lives of others.
If you can't afford a house that can comfortably bed that many kids, then you shouldn't have that many. Making a bunch of kids grow up 3+ to a room just so you can have your epic big family is far more selfish, because that's a lot of misery you are piling on them. And that's just a single consideration you have to take.
You shouldn't over think things because you will always convince yourself out of them, but having actual realistic understandings of money, space and time should always be on the table. If not for yourself, then for the fucking kids who have to live through your consequences.
Thanks, and you're right. That's a good way to word what I was trying to say.
It's something of a fine balance. Like it IS a worrisome state of affairs with just how many perfectly successful and happy people are deliberately choosing to never have kids.
But like you said, trying to go too far into the opposite extreme isn't necessarily going to lead to a healthy situation either.
And you're right. I used to try to talk myself out of the idea entirely. And for a long time, it worked, because I didn't understand or fathom why I'd want to take on such a responsibility. Eventually I came to understand how important that responsibility can be. How meaningful. And that it's something to work towards and aim for, within one's ability.
There is a reason why most parents start by accident and then never end up regretting it. Because its easy to convince yourself out of it forever, logically it makes sense to never, but once you just jump in it works itself out and you find a way to make it happen for them.
But most people on "our side" of this "culture war" don't think logistics. They just say to pump out kids and never consider that society is built around making sure you don't do that. We can't just have mom quit her job to be a housewife and then create our big family, not without a lot of luck and an amazing job, even if that is the best way to do it. Its just not feasible and would only create suffering for everyone to do it. So its up to all of us to do the best we can, not some pipe dream utopia.
Aye. It's a very easy thing to put off or avoid, until suddenly a person realizes they've just about run out of time.
I think what helped me put things in perspective was to realize just how integral raising a child can be just as part of the overall human experience. It's part of the very essence of biological life itself.
But even so, like you say, there are a lot of variables to factor in, both on the small scale and the large scale, and I think you put it far more eloquently than I can.
You are describing hedonism. You just don’t want to admit it to yourself.
Maybe it's hedonistic, but it's also smart in a society where family courts work the way they do.
...No, I'm not. For me it's not even remotely about prioritizing my own wants or needs. Hell, it's not even about freeing myself of burdens, stress, or anguish. It's straight up recognizing that I have some limitations that I may try my best to manage and overcome but are still going to impact how much I can effectively do. And I know my limitations far far better than you do.
I'm open to having children with the right woman. I'm just not going to invite myself to having so many that I know will only lead to a broken home and a dysfunctional family. Again, I'm talking about me personally, not everyone else.
Thanks man, I appreciate that. Both you and Adamrises are right. And that's mostly what I was trying to convey.
I mean I would like if more people would at least aspire to trying to raise a family with at least one or two healthy kids. But even so, for some people, try as they might, even that may be too much for them to handle.
Actually stats show the more children the less likely a broken home
In some cases maybe, but I'd wager that a lot of that depends on a lot more than offspring numbers as a variable.
Try showing me the same stats in families with a history of mental illness, bad genes, and/or extreme poverty.