In gaming’s desire to be “more cinematic” they’ve begun ridiculously overspending just like Hollywood does. Meanwhile, Tears of the Kingdom, which doesn’t feel the need to fully voice act every piece of dialogue or have realistic horse ball physics is kicking all their asses. Because, you know, it focused on being a game, first.
Because, you know, it focused on being a game, first.
I get the point you were going for, but spending 6 years on a glorified expansion pack that you have the gall to charge 70$ for isn't really a good example.
Especially as it seems they focused on being a physics sim first, and were only carried by having an entire game already made prior.
Both TLOU2 and Horizon: Forbidden West's development budgets were accidentally revealed in court. The former had a budget of $220 million and the latter had a budget of $212 million.
I think it brings serious question on whether TLOU2 was actually profitable. Yes, it sold 10 million copies, but it took 2 years and a huge discounts (often times to $9.99) to achieve that milestone. Not to mention, some of that money goes to Sony and retailers, and the number doesn't factor in the marketing budget.
Frequently, a movie or game’s failure doesn’t materialize until the next sequel bombs. People saw The Last Jedi in droves because they were entertained by The Force Awakens. Post TLJ, the Star Wars box office collapsed. Based on the divisive reactions to TLJ, it’s safe to say that movie was the catalyst for the collapse. TLJ “made” $1.3 billion, but it also lost billions.
I think TLOU2's performance greatly factored into the multiplayer getting shelved indefinitely. It's not like this is Naughty Dog's first foray into multiplayer; the studio has had experience since Uncharted 2. The fact that Naughty Dog needed Bungie to give the 'ok' (Bungie gave it a thumbs down) when Sony used to let it do whatever it wanted speaks volumes.
I’d never even heard of this. What, they prototyped TLOU2 multiplayer, Sony got cold feet and ran it by Bungie (I didn’t even know Sony owned them at this point), and then Bungie said “it stinks”? That’s a real kick in the balls to Naughty Dog. I wonder why Sony was suddenly second-guessing that team? TLOU2 was riding high on critical praise at the time and anyone who questioned sales was declared a bigot sandwich.
We actually had a glimpse of what the multiplayer was like from the leaks back in 2020. In 2019, Naughty Dog decided to make the singleplayer and multiplayer separate because the scope of both grew immense. Imagine working on the multiplayer that is at a scale of a full-fledged 'AAA' game for 5+ years and you even had a playable build 3 years ago. And then, you found out you need permission from another studio and that studio said "It's trash".
As of why Sony is now second-guessing Naughty Dog... well, the accolades were all an illusion. There were some gaming sites like TheGamer that shilled TLOU2 even 2-3 years later.
I wonder why Sony was suddenly second-guessing that team?
Because it wasn't the same team that delivered Uncharted 1 - 3 under Hennig's direction, or even the same team that made the original TLOU under Strayley and Druckmann's supervision.
it was Druckmann's team, made up of activists and replacements who had likely never tackled the kind of multiplayer they were aiming to make:
Which is a shame, because for all the criticisms you could have of the first game its multiplayer was incredibly fun. Didn't have the kind of depth and draw to be a "forever play" like a COD type game, but enough to give upticks on people's praise even if they hated the story.
Typical of ND to kill their ips now. Uncharted 4 was great for the multiplayer, and after 2 years of blue balling and false promises since it's release killed that. Now I don't give a shit about uncharted
The former had a budget of $220 million and the latter had a budget of $212 million.
For TLOU2, I can at least see where some of the money went with all of the animators going through the painstaking task of trying to make TLOU2 look as realistic as possible (though it probably would have behooved them to license or even R&D their own proprietary procedural interpolation software to remove a lot of the hand-required touch-up work). It's still an overly bloated budget where the gameplay isn't representative of that budget at all, and games like Death Stranding run massive circles around it mechanically, especially in terms of efficiency, gameplay, and actual fun.
But Forbidden West makes absolutely zero sense to me. If that was the budget for the first game -- overhauling the engine, creating a brand new pipeline that wasn't Killzone, and having to hire a bunch of artists and scale up the studio to deliver new assets and workflows -- I would understand. But gaming typically has smaller budgets for sequels because you can reuse a lot of assets and your workflow pipeline is already established.
That leaves me to question where on Earth did the $212 million go in Forbidden West? Their robosaur workflow was already established in the first game. The art direction was already established in the first game. The Decima engine's core features were already built out. They didn't even add any new gameplay that would warrant massive R&D, and there was nothing standout about the game in any way. I just don't understand where all the money went?
These leftist studios that “talk the talk” also tend to “walk the walk” in terms of staffing. My guess is there are dozens of people being paid millions of dollars in exchange for contributing almost nothing to the game. Think “diversity consultants”.
Money laundering trick one, make it complex enough no one really wants to follow the money. Then say there is a profit, even if there is no way it is possible. Make sure sales numbers look good and never answer anything about it except accuse the accusers.
In gaming’s desire to be “more cinematic” they’ve begun ridiculously overspending just like Hollywood does. Meanwhile, Tears of the Kingdom, which doesn’t feel the need to fully voice act every piece of dialogue or have realistic horse ball physics is kicking all their asses. Because, you know, it focused on being a game, first.
Despite the emulator for said game being better than its console.
I get the point you were going for, but spending 6 years on a glorified expansion pack that you have the gall to charge 70$ for isn't really a good example.
Especially as it seems they focused on being a physics sim first, and were only carried by having an entire game already made prior.
Both TLOU2 and Horizon: Forbidden West's development budgets were accidentally revealed in court. The former had a budget of $220 million and the latter had a budget of $212 million.
I think it brings serious question on whether TLOU2 was actually profitable. Yes, it sold 10 million copies, but it took 2 years and a huge discounts (often times to $9.99) to achieve that milestone. Not to mention, some of that money goes to Sony and retailers, and the number doesn't factor in the marketing budget.
Frequently, a movie or game’s failure doesn’t materialize until the next sequel bombs. People saw The Last Jedi in droves because they were entertained by The Force Awakens. Post TLJ, the Star Wars box office collapsed. Based on the divisive reactions to TLJ, it’s safe to say that movie was the catalyst for the collapse. TLJ “made” $1.3 billion, but it also lost billions.
Megaman Battle Network 4 sold amazingly on the tail of 3's success. It being a stinker of a game utterly killed 5 and 6's sales.
I think TLOU2's performance greatly factored into the multiplayer getting shelved indefinitely. It's not like this is Naughty Dog's first foray into multiplayer; the studio has had experience since Uncharted 2. The fact that Naughty Dog needed Bungie to give the 'ok' (Bungie gave it a thumbs down) when Sony used to let it do whatever it wanted speaks volumes.
I’d never even heard of this. What, they prototyped TLOU2 multiplayer, Sony got cold feet and ran it by Bungie (I didn’t even know Sony owned them at this point), and then Bungie said “it stinks”? That’s a real kick in the balls to Naughty Dog. I wonder why Sony was suddenly second-guessing that team? TLOU2 was riding high on critical praise at the time and anyone who questioned sales was declared a bigot sandwich.
Basically, yeah.
We actually had a glimpse of what the multiplayer was like from the leaks back in 2020. In 2019, Naughty Dog decided to make the singleplayer and multiplayer separate because the scope of both grew immense. Imagine working on the multiplayer that is at a scale of a full-fledged 'AAA' game for 5+ years and you even had a playable build 3 years ago. And then, you found out you need permission from another studio and that studio said "It's trash".
As of why Sony is now second-guessing Naughty Dog... well, the accolades were all an illusion. There were some gaming sites like TheGamer that shilled TLOU2 even 2-3 years later.
Because it wasn't the same team that delivered Uncharted 1 - 3 under Hennig's direction, or even the same team that made the original TLOU under Strayley and Druckmann's supervision.
it was Druckmann's team, made up of activists and replacements who had likely never tackled the kind of multiplayer they were aiming to make:
https://pixelgum.tv/gaming/2020/naughty-dog-loses-key-talent-due-to-unsustainable-crunch/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizlanier/2020/07/28/over-2000-people-worked-on-the-last-of-us-part-2-but-that-number-should-have-been-higher/?sh=790bb3373018
Which is a shame, because for all the criticisms you could have of the first game its multiplayer was incredibly fun. Didn't have the kind of depth and draw to be a "forever play" like a COD type game, but enough to give upticks on people's praise even if they hated the story.
Typical of ND to kill their ips now. Uncharted 4 was great for the multiplayer, and after 2 years of blue balling and false promises since it's release killed that. Now I don't give a shit about uncharted
(Also why I knew way in advance to avoid tlou2)
For TLOU2, I can at least see where some of the money went with all of the animators going through the painstaking task of trying to make TLOU2 look as realistic as possible (though it probably would have behooved them to license or even R&D their own proprietary procedural interpolation software to remove a lot of the hand-required touch-up work). It's still an overly bloated budget where the gameplay isn't representative of that budget at all, and games like Death Stranding run massive circles around it mechanically, especially in terms of efficiency, gameplay, and actual fun.
But Forbidden West makes absolutely zero sense to me. If that was the budget for the first game -- overhauling the engine, creating a brand new pipeline that wasn't Killzone, and having to hire a bunch of artists and scale up the studio to deliver new assets and workflows -- I would understand. But gaming typically has smaller budgets for sequels because you can reuse a lot of assets and your workflow pipeline is already established.
That leaves me to question where on Earth did the $212 million go in Forbidden West? Their robosaur workflow was already established in the first game. The art direction was already established in the first game. The Decima engine's core features were already built out. They didn't even add any new gameplay that would warrant massive R&D, and there was nothing standout about the game in any way. I just don't understand where all the money went?
These leftist studios that “talk the talk” also tend to “walk the walk” in terms of staffing. My guess is there are dozens of people being paid millions of dollars in exchange for contributing almost nothing to the game. Think “diversity consultants”.
This guy corporates
Hiring ugly fat feminists to consult on how to make Aloy as unattractive as possible.
Money laundering trick one, make it complex enough no one really wants to follow the money. Then say there is a profit, even if there is no way it is possible. Make sure sales numbers look good and never answer anything about it except accuse the accusers.
You think of it as spending a lot of money. They think of it as having a lot of money to spend.