Folks, the original subreddit that discussed the inner-workings of Reddit's participants
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No sense in trying to reason with them or get them to reflect on their own actions, these "people" aren't human and therefore can't be reasoned with.
There was a line in Ender's Shadow about how you can't accure power by begging to those who have it. If I ever get around to making a proper Reddit successor, I will spend countless sleepness nights making sure these parasites are confined to the room they made a mess of.
Edit: From the opening chapter, "Because these fools always look up for power. People above you, they never want to share power with you. Why you look to them? They give you nothing. People below you, you give them hope, you give them respect, they give you power, cause they don't think they have any, so they don't mind giving it up." Power is both bottm-up and top-down, but not bottom-up in the "fight the power, we oh so radical" LARP sense you get from Tom Morello.
The entire history of women's rights shows this is false. They just whined until they were given enough power that they are currently able to drag our world to hell on their whims.
Feminism was only allowed to succeed because it benefits those in power. Turning people on each other based off of gender has proven to be a really good method of divide and conquer. If feminism didn't benefit those in power, it would've been shut down quicker than Occupy Wall Street.
And yet women managed to gain considerable power just by begging for it, and plenty of men who weren't at the elite top gave it to them all the same.
The world isn't just "elites and the rest."
You're assuming that women didn't have "power." I would argue that women have always had power, and the problems we're having now is that we've dismantled nearly all checks on female power.
Their power was indirect. They had control over those with power, but attempting to leverage it outright and directly would be stilted heavily. So they needed to work through their husbands, fathers, etc. Their gaining of power was them seizing the ability remove that individual element, and instead leverage society as a whole as their new daddy with little restraint on what whims would move into action.
To deny that change is to deny that being able to open a pickle jar with your barehand instead of a gripper tool isn't an increase of power. Regardless of the result being equal.
I'm not denying that change; it sounds like we're in complete agreement. Women have always had power; it used to be a different type of power that (typically) had to be exercised through someone else (an implicit check on it), and now that check no longer exists.
We are in agreement then. I am simply used to people saying "ackshually it was the super shadow cabal who controls everything making them think they had power!!" so I countered a little wider than needed.
One thing to always keep in mind is how an human behavior is predominately governed by individuals acting in their own interest. Furthermore, a characteristic grouping people together, namely race, sex, or class, does not imply that individuals of a category work towards a common interest or support each other. Another comment correctly notes that women have always had some power, how much depending on circumstance.
The quote applies pretty well with that context, part of the explanation of how many women find themselves miserable situations, either of their own making or decided by previous generations' (both genders) policies and attitudes. "Powerful men" didn't bequeath power onto all women, some powerful men and women outmaneuvered other powerful persons by duping commoners into accepting a phony, dysfunctional equality and using that momentum as ammunition.
Individuals acting in their own interest can make changes on the behalf of the group, so I don't know what that entire paragraph is trying to get to. Feminists, in this case, changed the playing field for all women despite being a minority of them. Also, someone having power already doesn't preclude them from getting more power.
They literally did though. Powerful men in government and elite positions granted them legal power and protections to break them of their social chains (thereby granting them social power too), which they accrued entirely by whining loudly until they were uplifted. Even the parts that didn't require powerful men directly bequeathing it, like slut shaming, was accomplished by crying to men to stop doing it until they did. Just because they couldn't handle that power and it backfired horribly on most doesn't mean they lack it, nor does the fact that many of them choose to not use said weapons make them powerless.
You are speaking in flowerly vague terms to try and hold your point as 100% true in all cases possible, when a concrete example shows that its only usually true. I don't mean this to sound as aggressive as it does, but it was hard to even grasp what you were trying to say.
George Carlin's 'big club, and you ain't in it' only implies that a top 1% individual will risk himself for the class's benefit only if there's a visible outside threat, or if such actions would happen to significantly raise his status. Otherwise, the day-to-day modus operandi is individuals and factions vying for themselves; this has the added effect of ensuring the upper-class doesn't become unsustainbly large. The same principle applies to the peasantry, with how wages increased in the aftermath of Mongol invasions and black death.
And other commoners (losers in the Gervais Pyramid) were duped into thinking into thinking they were getting a great deal with feminism/progressivism/etc, while being distracted away from grand transfers of wealth throughout the 20th century.
As in a king ceremoniously swearing in his loyal retainers. Some were swindled by beggars, but most were coerced by other elites and new bloods.
There's always generalisms and nuance; I'm just stating the overarching cause behind feminism 'succeeding' was social attrition, not top 20% men breaking down at the sound of pleading spouses and daughters.The entirety of the feminist movement, at least as pertains to politics, is my example. What you see as begging was really activists and pawns engaging in a whole bunch of maneuver and doublespeak. 'Oppose the newly passed 19th amendment and lose your business contacts while being placed on the wrong side of history.' I don't feel like conducting extensive archaeology on feminist history to pick out specific examples, since my original point was about not licking the boots of jannies and investor-hamstrung tech companies.
You just repeated the same thing over without any relevance to what I said about how individuals can work for their own interests, and still change the placement of the group. The top 1% person can do something entirely for themselves and it ripple across everything. Karen Horney had a personal hissy fit against Freud and created her entire progressive rot in the Psychology field, and in turn the abuse of said field across all walks of life. King Henry changed the entire course of the English people's history on a desire for a divorce.
Again, irrelevant. They still got great amounts of power. Just because someone else benefited and that power didn't bring them happiness like they believed doesn't change that. Which seems to be your issue in general, focusing on the shadow cabal of elites profitting and then working backwards to where all other things fall into place for your definition.
They didn't plead the elites straight up into getting it. They plead everyman who could be made to listen into fighting their battle for them, just as they've always done and have continued to do since. That attrition is exactly what I meant, you just want to say you are right and reword it to fit your "can never" original point.
Look, I don't think you're arguing in bad faith or anything like that, but please reread my initial comment. I don't recall if my edit quoting the snippet came after your first response or not, but I assure you the context was in regards to those clutching onto whatever hierarchical power they have. My initial point was, and still is, that you can't beg to those in power to relinquish that power, which is almost self-evident. My supporting reasoning the later comment was that speaking of a shared characteristic as a cohesive group is a waste of time, excepting deliberate hyperbole.
Any strides women achieved in the past century are equaled out by the utter dis-empowerment of the working lower and middle classes. The married woman has more overt power over her husband than before 1960 or 1890, but the American family or individual has far less power than before 1930 until you reach $600k/yr household income. No disagreement that there are more women in explicit higher positions of power. The relevance is that women in the workplace and owning property isn't entirely a bad thing. The introverted woman doing concept-art for 20-40 hrs/week before heading home to walk her dog isn't causing the issues that the meeting obsessed finance/marketing folk are. Note that I am not stating that the doubling of the workforce was the transfer of wealth, as someone like Peterson would.
Yes, but that's not a conscious decision to improve the health of their social class, and often enough not to those professing the same cause.
Edit: My preference for the cautious use of collectives in language is similar to the case some Youtuber made about 'color-blindness'. By proclaiming color-blindness, one is falling into the trap of using rhetoric that is conceptually polluted by the zealots. Similarly, I can't stand the conformist/normie majority's emotional susceptibility towards tribal identity and blind obedience over community responsibility; to be clear I don't consider you part of that reprehensible category.
I'm not a lefty socialist but Morello's fakery still pisses me off. I suppose I should wish they were all like that, though, bc then we could shut down communism simply by ruining expensive coffee shop culture.
Thalidomide abnormalities, Vioxx heart attacks and Oxycontin addiction were all “medical misinformation” going against “scientific consensus”
So was Galileo's heliocentric model, but you know, gotta adhere to the orthodoxy of the current religion in power.
"You've been banned from [insert subreddit consisting of an ephemeral, meaningless slurry of content] for posting on unrelated wrongthink community" is usually unremarkable. But this was neutral ground for exploring the upsides and downsides of the website, and ironic casualty of "dissent is direct violence" hysteria that will define this decade. My fault for disregarding that some of the original powermods (godofatheism) were on the modlist the entire time.
If you want to understand Reddit's inner workings and why everyone is being banned and who is doing it, start with the cast page of The Internet Must Go and look into their connections.
I remember reading a thread about how they purged wrongthink from r/cringe and relied on Bardfag and his butt buddies to protect the sub from better run competition. This doesn't surprise me at all.
What was disgusting about r/cringe was the delusion that their set of opaque rules deterring towards miscreants was clever. The specific rule was "cringe situation must involve 2 individuals". I don't take issue with wanting to keep low-effort noise out (ex. r/wholesomememes or 95% of r/all), but the patronizingly polite doublethink, that these self-congratulatory hall-monitors and their camp-followers adopt, stinks worse than shriveled taint.
Their writeup was on the same meta discussion subreddit I got bot-banned from for posting a comment a year covid was $current_thing.