Well, that was a disappointingly short trial...it just started! I wanted more memes and entertainment.
The prosecution showed the jurors the Millers’ pistol and shotgun, reminding them that firearms are deadly weapons, and said Howard was standing about 6 feet away when the Millers shot him.
I'm not taking sides here, everyone was retarded, but that argument from the prosecution is also, as expected, straight up retarded. The "victim" said in graphic detail he was going to take the gun from the father and shoot him in the head, repeatedly said he was going to "fucking kill you," he also was insulting them and said he'd kill his son as well. He had a bat and was 6'7". A baseball bat is around three feet, and giants have long arms. One step and he can brain you. Being six feet away is already well within the danger zone. Also...bats are deadly weapons too.
Everyone involved was an asshat. But the dead guy did throw that bat at the dad and it did strike him. Rekieta did a 1/4 speed play through of the video and you can clearly see that the bat hit the dad. I think what might have gotten the dad in trouble is that after the initial volley of gunfire as the bat is being thrown, theres a final shot or two after. It's probable that the jury thought that the dad was giving Howard a final coup de grâce.
Branca thinks that the different verdicts came from "Take your swing." Jury may have found that saying that made the bat attack an invited act of violence, which makes the dad lose his self defense privilege.
It's certainly possible. Unfortunately, without the live video from the courtroom, it's impossible to know for sure what the jury saw or what the two sides emphasized during the trial.
Not to defend anyone, but isn't throwing a baseball bat disarming yourself - and thus removing the imminent threat to the other party.
However, I recall a video, also from Texas, from a guy who murdered a kid's father from very short distance, and who got off scot-free. That victim had the bad luck of being white, so he could be killed with impunity.
Tony, bat or no bat if someone is attacking, take action until they stop.
Escalate until the action is effective. Start at the level of violence that they use, as defined by the continuum of force, and proceed from there.
If the defender has a gun drawn, issue a warning and if the attacker attempts to close within two meters, end the threat. Best practice is two shots to the torso, one low and one high, center mass.
This is taught at every gun self defense course and to every cop.
If the attacker gets their hands on your gun, you are very, very likely to get shot with it.
However, I recall a video, also from Texas, from a guy who murdered a kid's father from very short distance, and who got off scot-free.
That was disgusting, and another case of everyone being kind of retarded. People need to learn not to fuck with people waving guns around, even if those people are in the wrong. When someone has a gun and has shown willingness to use it, either try to deescalate and wait for police, or put the guy down. But don't bring knives, bats, or fists to a gunfight...it won't end well for you.
Especially if you're somewhere with very generous self defense laws, such as Texas. Because even if the other guy is an asshole, if you don't tread carefully he will be legally within his rights to shoot you dead if you do something stupid and aggressive.
Also, the women involved in that shooting both seemed like sociopaths.
According to the statutes I could find for Texas that shooting didn't qualify as self defense under the law. Did anything come of it yet?
Also the new wife just seemed to be in shock. The old wife seemed to have set the whole thing up because she's the one that called him there to pick up their kid even though the kid wasn't there.
No criminal charges were filed. A wrongful death claim has been filed though, and is pending, I believe.
Also the new wife just seemed to be in shock.
Fair enough, perhaps only one of the women was a sociopath. People react differently. It's still interesting, though, compare her reaction to the reaction from the camerawoman in the dumpster defender incident, who freaks the hell out when her man goes down. But, yeah, could just be shock.
The old wife seemed to have set the whole thing up because she's the one that called him there to pick up their kid even though the kid wasn't there.
Do you have a source for that? As I understood it, the father showed up unannounced after he couldn't pick up his son from another location (which is what makes this story so fucking sad.) The father had every right to be upset, as his ex and her new boyfriend had essentially kidnapped his son, and not for the first time. He had limited custody, and they weren't even honoring that. He still behaved idiotically, but I also completely understand the emotional response, and he was in a really shitty situation.
It can't be a legal standard, because if someone starts a fight, that certainly does not give you the right to do whatever you want in retaliation. Or do you think that if I gave you a slap, you slapped me back, you could then also pull out a gun and shoot me?
The article says a mattress was taken in and out of the dumpster.
This is basically what precipitated it. It was a dispute over whether the mattress needed to be in or next to the dumpster in order for it to be picked up, and despite everyone being age 30+, there were no actual adults in this whole mess. Important for context though is the fact that Howard had explosive personality disorder, which made him go from 0-100 at the drop of a hat. His angry outbursts clearly contributed to the incident. Also, don't bring a bat to a gun fight.
Idk why but this wording is making me laugh my ass off. Like there's just latent stupidity everywhere just waiting for the right conditions to precipitate out of the ether lmao
Well, that was a disappointingly short trial...it just started! I wanted more memes and entertainment.
I'm not taking sides here, everyone was retarded, but that argument from the prosecution is also, as expected, straight up retarded. The "victim" said in graphic detail he was going to take the gun from the father and shoot him in the head, repeatedly said he was going to "fucking kill you," he also was insulting them and said he'd kill his son as well. He had a bat and was 6'7". A baseball bat is around three feet, and giants have long arms. One step and he can brain you. Being six feet away is already well within the danger zone. Also...bats are deadly weapons too.
Everyone involved was an asshat. But the dead guy did throw that bat at the dad and it did strike him. Rekieta did a 1/4 speed play through of the video and you can clearly see that the bat hit the dad. I think what might have gotten the dad in trouble is that after the initial volley of gunfire as the bat is being thrown, theres a final shot or two after. It's probable that the jury thought that the dad was giving Howard a final coup de grâce.
perfectly legitimate to ensure the threat is neutralized
I agree. I think that they both should have been acquitted.
Branca thinks that the different verdicts came from "Take your swing." Jury may have found that saying that made the bat attack an invited act of violence, which makes the dad lose his self defense privilege.
It's certainly possible. Unfortunately, without the live video from the courtroom, it's impossible to know for sure what the jury saw or what the two sides emphasized during the trial.
Not to defend anyone, but isn't throwing a baseball bat disarming yourself - and thus removing the imminent threat to the other party.
However, I recall a video, also from Texas, from a guy who murdered a kid's father from very short distance, and who got off scot-free. That victim had the bad luck of being white, so he could be killed with impunity.
Tell you what buddy. I'll just use my bare hands. Stand still.
If you are right, I am no threat at all.
If I am right, you will be unable to pass on you inferior genes.
Whoa, that escalated quickly. I think you didn't quite understand what I meant.
Besides, haven't you often called me a faggot? What's the likelihood of passing down inferior genes if you are?
An attacker who throws or drops their bat is still dangerous. Especially if they are now free to get their hands on your gun.
Tony, some of my best friends are faggots. I don't hold it against you.
Live and learn. Or don't, and collect your Darwin Award.
Right. But he was dangerous before he threw the bat. Being 'dangerous' alone is no reason to shoot someone.
So in your view, it is more justified to shoot someone who doesn't hold a bat than someone who does?
Tony, bat or no bat if someone is attacking, take action until they stop.
Escalate until the action is effective. Start at the level of violence that they use, as defined by the continuum of force, and proceed from there.
If the defender has a gun drawn, issue a warning and if the attacker attempts to close within two meters, end the threat. Best practice is two shots to the torso, one low and one high, center mass.
This is taught at every gun self defense course and to every cop.
If the attacker gets their hands on your gun, you are very, very likely to get shot with it.
That was disgusting, and another case of everyone being kind of retarded. People need to learn not to fuck with people waving guns around, even if those people are in the wrong. When someone has a gun and has shown willingness to use it, either try to deescalate and wait for police, or put the guy down. But don't bring knives, bats, or fists to a gunfight...it won't end well for you.
Especially if you're somewhere with very generous self defense laws, such as Texas. Because even if the other guy is an asshole, if you don't tread carefully he will be legally within his rights to shoot you dead if you do something stupid and aggressive.
Also, the women involved in that shooting both seemed like sociopaths.
According to the statutes I could find for Texas that shooting didn't qualify as self defense under the law. Did anything come of it yet?
Also the new wife just seemed to be in shock. The old wife seemed to have set the whole thing up because she's the one that called him there to pick up their kid even though the kid wasn't there.
No criminal charges were filed. A wrongful death claim has been filed though, and is pending, I believe.
Fair enough, perhaps only one of the women was a sociopath. People react differently. It's still interesting, though, compare her reaction to the reaction from the camerawoman in the dumpster defender incident, who freaks the hell out when her man goes down. But, yeah, could just be shock.
Do you have a source for that? As I understood it, the father showed up unannounced after he couldn't pick up his son from another location (which is what makes this story so fucking sad.) The father had every right to be upset, as his ex and her new boyfriend had essentially kidnapped his son, and not for the first time. He had limited custody, and they weren't even honoring that. He still behaved idiotically, but I also completely understand the emotional response, and he was in a really shitty situation.
No attacking someone is not the same thing as putting your weapon down.
I am aware. But if the standard is imminent threat of serious injury, or whatever it is, then the result is that he no longer carries a weapon.
There is another standard that if you start a fight the other guy gets to finish it.
It can't be a legal standard, because if someone starts a fight, that certainly does not give you the right to do whatever you want in retaliation. Or do you think that if I gave you a slap, you slapped me back, you could then also pull out a gun and shoot me?
If I hit you with a baseball bat I'm taking your gun afterwards
WTF Texas?
This ain't no place for no hero.
I doubt it
Take your swing.
I knew the race of the 'victim' by just reading that title.
It's odd that the guy convicted of murder apparently defended himself, while the guy who shot him in the head was not.
What the fuck precipitated all this stupidity? The article says a mattress was taken in and out of the dumpster. That is incredibly fucking vague.
This is basically what precipitated it. It was a dispute over whether the mattress needed to be in or next to the dumpster in order for it to be picked up, and despite everyone being age 30+, there were no actual adults in this whole mess. Important for context though is the fact that Howard had explosive personality disorder, which made him go from 0-100 at the drop of a hat. His angry outbursts clearly contributed to the incident. Also, don't bring a bat to a gun fight.
His borderline personality wife did it. She married him because she likes the drama. He was her shaved ape on a not-short-enough leash.
You won't shoot muh husband!
Idk why but this wording is making me laugh my ass off. Like there's just latent stupidity everywhere just waiting for the right conditions to precipitate out of the ether lmao