Second, I was concerned with equity. For almost 10 years I have been studying inclusive pedagogy, which focuses on ensuring that all students have the resources they need to learn. My studies confirmed my sense that sometimes what I was really grading was a student's background. Students with educational privilege came into my classroom already prepared to write A or B papers, while others often had not had the instruction that would enable them to do so. The 14 weeks they spent in my class could not make up for the years of educational privilege their peers had enjoyed.
Reducing requirements for entry to university results in accepting those who start too far behind other students. They're strapped with debt, the one type of debt that never goes away, think they're dumb and become easier to radicalize. If instead they directed them to a program (such as a community college course) that could help learn the prerequisites they need to actually make use of university, they would do far better.
That is assuming universities still have the ability to actually teach students something worthwhile, instead of just indoctrination.
IQ is a significant part of the problem. I'm willing to accept that some kids got fucked over by a shitty environment or were limited by the system, but the sad truth is that most of these kids who are "behind" simply don't have the intelligence to advance beyond a certain point, and that point is often far below the capabilities of what a high school diploma proports to certify. These kids shouldn't be in college at all. They should be in a vocational program that will teach them skills that don't require book smarts but will make them employable and allow them to earn a decent wage. Allowing an infinite supply of cheap labor to flood across the Rio Grande prevents these people from making a living, and corporate America's addiction to cheap labor plays no small part in ensuring that they favor open borders.
If they don't meet the requirements for a high school diploma, they shouldn't have them. I'm not arguing otherwise. I agree with vocational programs. Some countries used to test grade school students, and if they weren't good at academics, moved them to an education program focused on trades. It worked for these students, but academia has infiltrated everything now and turned it to shit.
Let's give them a pass and unleash them at the next generation, even though they are not fit to fill that role?
I'm referring to smart kids who got fucked by a high school system that rewards compliance over intelligence, or the high IQ kids who couldn't learn because they had the misfortune of going to a "diverse" school. They're capable of university level work. They shouldn't just be given a pass without proving they deserve it, but they shouldn't be locked out of university level programs forever either. In my other comments in this thread I supported the idea of being able to prove capability in alternative ways. All that said a significant portion of the population will never be able to prove capability and they need career options that don't involve university.
The solution is to stop accepting individuals who aren't up to the standards.
exactly what I wrote, they don't meet the standards for university, so you direct them to a program so they can gain the standards before they're accepted into university. It might take them a year, but it means if they go on to university, they won't be behind before the first day.
I think you're overestimating the number of people who would benefit from such a program. I'm not saying the opportunity you suggest shouldn't exist, but the reality is that college isn't for everyone and there needs to be a way to filter those people out so they can spend their time and money on more productive pursuits like vocational school. Immigration should be cut off to give them a fighting chance as well. Any college program that's rigorous enough to make someone employable requires a certain level of intelligence that not everyone has. Some people will never get it no matter how much effort they put in. For example algebra will never be comprehensible to the bottom 70% of the IQ distribution. We'd be able to make education work for everyone if we were able to face some unpleasant truths.
The solution is to stop accepting individuals who aren't up to the standards.
It's worth a shot bringing them up to standards. But we don't do that. We pretend they are up to standard and give them leeway all the way though to graduation.
I'd be A-OK giving underprivileged people a chance. But only if we started accepting that there's a line where we have to accept that these people are not what we thought they'd be. Sadly we can't do that. We pretend that it's an external force holding them down and not their own ineptitude.
this. stanford and UCLA even ran a study on the failure that is affirmative action.
each school begins accepting students who are unqualified when they walk in the door, practically guaranteeing their failure.
and because minorities were unduly elevated, they took the seat of a white/asian kid who was more qualified, who now goes to a lower school, making the gaps between white/asian vs blacks/latinos at the mid and lower schools even bigger.
but because each school at each tier is trying to massively up their minority numbers, each tier down has to dip even further and further into the dregs. by the time you get to lower tier schools, they've dipped so far deeper into the dregs, the qualifications gap has become a chasm.
the white/asian kids don't even come to class and get straight As, while the blacks/latinos are struggling because they shouldn't have been in that school in the first place.
affirmative action has NEVER passed any meaningful means test in history, and has extensively failed means testing. it ALWAYS catches up... blacks receiving affirmative action have such drastically lower bar passage and medical boards passage than blacks who don't that the entire class would have been better off without affirmative action. in the actual means testing, the non-AA class would have only 10 blacks in 200 students and only 4 would pass the bar. the AA class would have have 30 blacks in 200 students and only 2 or 3 would pass the bar.
With big tests like the bar exam or other physical requirements needed to be a firefighter, for example—employers necessarily use a measurement tool to identify applicants to find ones who will be able to do the job well (although they are pressured to not use those anymore). My spouse used to have a brief basic test to see if an applicant can do basic math/bookkeeping. It was amazing to him how people who said they were “bookkeepers” and had experience, could not add a line of numbers or know a debit or credit, or their handwriting was illegible.
But now, it’s not about giving people equal opportunity, it’s about equal outcomes. And that is communism.
the point of AA was always to subvert society to moving closer to communism. once you accept that different demographic outcomes justify AA, it's over. there's an infinite number of ways to cut demographic outcomes to ALWAYS find unequal outcomes. for example, asians in the US make WAAAAYYYY more than latinos in the US on average. is this because a country that's 30%+ latino and climbing hates latinos? or is it because older people consistently make more money than young people, and the latino population distribution is 20 years younger than the asian population distribution?
so long as people have choices, people will make different choices. different groups of people make measurably different choices. the only way to have equal outcome is to eliminate those choices. communism is predicated on eliminating all choice. it's slavery.
Like I said it's all about fucking over competent students from demographics she hates. Concerns that the traditional grading system hinders learning are legitimate, but there are ways to address that without making the final grade a free for all that boils down to whether the instructor likes you or your identity group.
"my studies confirmed my sense that......" that right there is a huge research no-no referred to as confirmation bias. Forcing data to support the hypothesis invalidates the research, wanker.
Of fucking course.
Because nothing helps struggling students more than holding them to zero standards
Thomas Sowell talked about this.
Reducing requirements for entry to university results in accepting those who start too far behind other students. They're strapped with debt, the one type of debt that never goes away, think they're dumb and become easier to radicalize. If instead they directed them to a program (such as a community college course) that could help learn the prerequisites they need to actually make use of university, they would do far better.
That is assuming universities still have the ability to actually teach students something worthwhile, instead of just indoctrination.
IQ is a significant part of the problem. I'm willing to accept that some kids got fucked over by a shitty environment or were limited by the system, but the sad truth is that most of these kids who are "behind" simply don't have the intelligence to advance beyond a certain point, and that point is often far below the capabilities of what a high school diploma proports to certify. These kids shouldn't be in college at all. They should be in a vocational program that will teach them skills that don't require book smarts but will make them employable and allow them to earn a decent wage. Allowing an infinite supply of cheap labor to flood across the Rio Grande prevents these people from making a living, and corporate America's addiction to cheap labor plays no small part in ensuring that they favor open borders.
If they don't meet the requirements for a high school diploma, they shouldn't have them. I'm not arguing otherwise. I agree with vocational programs. Some countries used to test grade school students, and if they weren't good at academics, moved them to an education program focused on trades. It worked for these students, but academia has infiltrated everything now and turned it to shit.
So am I. And then? Let's give them a pass and unleash them at the next generation, even though they are not fit to fill that role?
Man, I'm glad that we stopped rewarding people that go above and beyond.
I'm referring to smart kids who got fucked by a high school system that rewards compliance over intelligence, or the high IQ kids who couldn't learn because they had the misfortune of going to a "diverse" school. They're capable of university level work. They shouldn't just be given a pass without proving they deserve it, but they shouldn't be locked out of university level programs forever either. In my other comments in this thread I supported the idea of being able to prove capability in alternative ways. All that said a significant portion of the population will never be able to prove capability and they need career options that don't involve university.
Still a problem, still hogging resources.
The solution is to stop accepting individuals who aren't up to the standards.
exactly what I wrote, they don't meet the standards for university, so you direct them to a program so they can gain the standards before they're accepted into university. It might take them a year, but it means if they go on to university, they won't be behind before the first day.
Library cards?
I don't think you really understand my point here. College should not be for everyone.
The people who deserve to be in higher education are the people who give enough of a fuck to be ready for it.
I think you're overestimating the number of people who would benefit from such a program. I'm not saying the opportunity you suggest shouldn't exist, but the reality is that college isn't for everyone and there needs to be a way to filter those people out so they can spend their time and money on more productive pursuits like vocational school. Immigration should be cut off to give them a fighting chance as well. Any college program that's rigorous enough to make someone employable requires a certain level of intelligence that not everyone has. Some people will never get it no matter how much effort they put in. For example algebra will never be comprehensible to the bottom 70% of the IQ distribution. We'd be able to make education work for everyone if we were able to face some unpleasant truths.
It's worth a shot bringing them up to standards. But we don't do that. We pretend they are up to standard and give them leeway all the way though to graduation.
I'd be A-OK giving underprivileged people a chance. But only if we started accepting that there's a line where we have to accept that these people are not what we thought they'd be. Sadly we can't do that. We pretend that it's an external force holding them down and not their own ineptitude.
this. stanford and UCLA even ran a study on the failure that is affirmative action.
each school begins accepting students who are unqualified when they walk in the door, practically guaranteeing their failure.
and because minorities were unduly elevated, they took the seat of a white/asian kid who was more qualified, who now goes to a lower school, making the gaps between white/asian vs blacks/latinos at the mid and lower schools even bigger.
but because each school at each tier is trying to massively up their minority numbers, each tier down has to dip even further and further into the dregs. by the time you get to lower tier schools, they've dipped so far deeper into the dregs, the qualifications gap has become a chasm.
the white/asian kids don't even come to class and get straight As, while the blacks/latinos are struggling because they shouldn't have been in that school in the first place.
affirmative action has NEVER passed any meaningful means test in history, and has extensively failed means testing. it ALWAYS catches up... blacks receiving affirmative action have such drastically lower bar passage and medical boards passage than blacks who don't that the entire class would have been better off without affirmative action. in the actual means testing, the non-AA class would have only 10 blacks in 200 students and only 4 would pass the bar. the AA class would have have 30 blacks in 200 students and only 2 or 3 would pass the bar.
With big tests like the bar exam or other physical requirements needed to be a firefighter, for example—employers necessarily use a measurement tool to identify applicants to find ones who will be able to do the job well (although they are pressured to not use those anymore). My spouse used to have a brief basic test to see if an applicant can do basic math/bookkeeping. It was amazing to him how people who said they were “bookkeepers” and had experience, could not add a line of numbers or know a debit or credit, or their handwriting was illegible.
But now, it’s not about giving people equal opportunity, it’s about equal outcomes. And that is communism.
the point of AA was always to subvert society to moving closer to communism. once you accept that different demographic outcomes justify AA, it's over. there's an infinite number of ways to cut demographic outcomes to ALWAYS find unequal outcomes. for example, asians in the US make WAAAAYYYY more than latinos in the US on average. is this because a country that's 30%+ latino and climbing hates latinos? or is it because older people consistently make more money than young people, and the latino population distribution is 20 years younger than the asian population distribution?
so long as people have choices, people will make different choices. different groups of people make measurably different choices. the only way to have equal outcome is to eliminate those choices. communism is predicated on eliminating all choice. it's slavery.
Like I said it's all about fucking over competent students from demographics she hates. Concerns that the traditional grading system hinders learning are legitimate, but there are ways to address that without making the final grade a free for all that boils down to whether the instructor likes you or your identity group.
One wonders if the teachers in the, IDK, Spanish department get butthurt they're giving better grades to students who grew up speaking Spanish.
"my studies confirmed my sense that......" that right there is a huge research no-no referred to as confirmation bias. Forcing data to support the hypothesis invalidates the research, wanker.