I am sure there is a lot of cross traffic between here and thedonald.win, myself included, although I only lurk there. I've been lucking since before the 2016 election, before reddit even banned the original subreddit.
Since the election there has been a huge number of election fraud posts, and while some of them certainly seem to have merit, there are plenty that don't. As a consequence I see posts that call for "low energy pedes" to leave, or Republicans (that aren't Trump supporters) to leave, etc. I fear that the signal to noise ratio is too low, and it makes it too easy for the MSM to ignore.
I have my own theories about what happened with the election, why, and how, based on what I've read, that I hope are reasonable, but my title question is an important one. It also asks other things. Is the Trump movement growing or shrinking? Are reasonable voices being driven away who really want to sort the fact and fiction? Are we all deluding ourselves?
Growing. We should be able to confirm that he got at least, what, a minimum of 70 million votes? I've been previously looking at the turnout compared to 2016, and although I suspect he did legitimately win, it was close because of how many whites switched from 3rd party Left-wing parties back to the Democrats.
The violence that the Democrats used on their own people solidified the establishment's control over the left. It didn't weaken it. A lot of normies that were on the fence or uninterested are very interested now, and it'll be important to keep them together, because win/lose, the Left's attacks are not going to stop.
Though many of us have been fighting the culture war since 2014, it's abundantly clear from the Million Maga March a few weeks ago, that many Trump supporters are absolutely not.
That's why, despite any advice I would have told them, they brought their families to Washington DC and didn't seem to think that they would be targets in one of the most radical places in the country, with some of the most active cells. You all should have assumed that you were going to war the moment you showed up, and you treated it like another Trump rally... so they came for your kids, and waited while you were alone. That's what these predators do.
That's normies experiencing protest for the first time, and getting punched in the back of the head to come to the startling realization that you're actually revolutionaries whether you like it or not.
Only by hyperbole, as is normal. The power-tie is more influential to the average viewer than the rant. That's why the left wants to focus on QAnon so much. Too many boomers are reading way too far into who controls what.
Are we all deluding ourselves?
Not really, no. It's just that the establishment has a timetable to keep, and you're not supposed to disagree. The purpose of disinformation is to make sure you stay confused. The confusion is being weaponized.
Whatever you probably believe probably isn't too far off from the norm if you're introspective enough to ask these questions.
The MSM is in direct conflict with reality at this point. They don't give a shit. Honestly if Joe Biden shot Bernie Sanders in the head today, you wouldn't hear a fucking word on MSNBC.
They are acting like this because they are waging a propaganda war against you. Their interests are threatened, and they're not playing softball anymore. As far as they are concerned, they are on a war-footing. You will, under no circumstances, be granted one iota of benefit. You are the enemy. Every single broadcast might as well come from Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally. You're not even the audience. The MSM has absolutely nothing to say to you without spittle flying into your face.
Like I said before: I'm afraid that you've started a revolution. Now you're going to have to try and win it. It's not a question of "are we easy to ignore?" Stop letting them ignore you. You're gonna have to get in people's faces and bang on doors.
Your last one is a really important note. The culture war's been on for a long time, and this poster is either spreading FUD or they're extremely new to the war based on the verbiage.
"It makes it too easy for the MSM to ignore" is bullshit disinfo and thinking in any way similar to that will cripple your capability to engage in this war. We're not mainstream. The number of people who watch this site is low, so the MSM is ignoring us always.
The way to make things happen is to work on improving the SNR. Make reasonable comments, fight against FUD, signal-boost credible information. ENGAGE. Once we find good info, then it's time to spread on Twitter, to places like Project Veritas, and on more mainstream sites.
Nothing truthful about this site will ever make it onto CNN. Believe me.
You can't deny that there's a lot of newbies. They need patience.
I'm not familiar with these terms. I think that while some online activism is useful, I think interpersonal action is imperative. People know me at work as the Austrian Economics fan, and the gold bug. ... The Diversity Initiatives are going to start soon. Guess who's gonna start making trouble?
I just wanted to play video games. I didn't want to be a revolutionary.
BUT YOU LEAVE ME WITH NO CHOICE, COMMUNISTS.
YOU LEAVE ME WITH NO CHOICE
Signal to Noise Ratio. and Fear Uncertainty Doubt.
My concern with the SNR and the MSM has to do with the fact, like it or not, that they dominate the conversation, and are the principal source of information for enough people that they caused Trump to lose. It wasn't the only factor of course, but a large one.
I'm struggling, and fear for my children's future.
The MSM still have some power, I don't deny that. "Caused Trump to lose", I'm not so convinced. But I won't deny that 4 years of MSM propaganda can cause some people to rally against the target. But that being said, you're looking at the problem wrong. They've never been this week. They weren't this week in the days of radio. The Mainstream Media hasn't been this weak since the late 1800's. Hollywood's never been this week. Never. These are wings in a long war, even if they're more costly than you'd hope.
As for your kids, you will make your children's future by hand. Don't rely on it to be crafted for them. They will have to fight for it, and you must teach them to fight.
A tangent, but I have to ask: do the TD lads have a compiled resource for this kind of data? We've been having information-based skirmishes for years now online, and I think it's essential for any online community under attack to develop a widespread understanding of things like shilling, disinformation, and trolling.
I come from /pol/ territory, and while a lot of their ideas are considered unsavory, they had some fantastic resources. Shamefully, I can't share their COINTELPRO guide because I'm a dummy and didn't save it (and google search will never show it). But the point is that that kind of image featuring compiled data was how the /pol/ group passed such essential data to new users.
If TD has no such guide, well...I hope they can make one because they get (and should expect to get) so many newcomers. They know they're a target, but the attitude I always see there is that reports and mods will solve everything, thus making it unessential to understand the vectors of attack that are most likely to occur.
You have accurately described everyone who joined this war through Gamergate. Six Years ago, if you told me, an avid gamer, that I will be part of a grand movement to save the not only America, but the whole of Mankind from the clutches of globalist evil, I would think you are crazy.
Now? I bet that the people who made those "Gamers are Dead" articles back then regretted generating the spark that ignited gamers all around the world that would lead to Donald Trump's victory.
For the first time, someone told them no. It scared the shit out of them. They got what they wanted eventually, but the horror of people actually standing against them in a way that they couldn't contain shattered something in them.
Worse, all of us kept saying no. The blowback never ended. We kept refusing and they kept pushing. We were supposed to all either die or come on board, but instead we didn't stop resisting, and they have no idea what to do.
That's why I think it really still messes with their heads. They expected to win at some point, either by exhaustion or by coercion. Instead the battle only got larger. The narrative they tell themselves says we should have simply ended, but we didn't. The narrative didn't just seem to be wrong, it seemed to be the opposite of true. We are the embodiment of their own narrative's failure. And when that narrative is promising only utopia, it's a horrific feeling that something is fundamentally wrong about how they see the world, and how they see themselves.
That's probably what keeps causing them to wake up in cold sweats.
The true horror that they don't want to think about is not that they made us, but that we were inevitable from their own actions, and we won't ever go away.
SNR is short for Signal to Noise Ratio, which the user was referring to earlier. A higher SNR makes it easier to separate valuable and reliable data from random chatter.
FUD is short for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. It's an absolutely pivotal part of counter-intelligence operations on the internet. Let's say, for example, that the CIA wants to reduce usage of The Onion Routing (Tor) to anonymize internet data and protect privacy. Since they can't actually prevent people from getting hold of Tor safely, they instead resort to spreading FUD around to dissuade people from using it. Stories about how you could get put on a list if you send Tor from your house, that you could be arrested for enabling Tor exit routing, that it's not actually secure because companies are running all the entry routers, etc.
You'll notice lots of FUD spreading around developing stories. Blackpill can be used as a sort of FUD, as well as inserting conflicting (false) details. It's really important to do your own research and keep a cool head when dealing with stories on the internet.
Agreed. The level of disinfo we are seeing is warlike.
Be careful. At will employment, my friend. I bet you now wish that you were a Eurofag like me. I can say whatever I want, and they can't do a thing.
I prefer At-Will Employment.
Austrian Economics isn't for cowards.
Thank you for the reply.
I hope you are right about the movement growing. I feel like to be a heretic, because I can not see what so many others see.
The QAnon thing is insane. I see way more about it outside of right wing circles than in them. Just today I got a flyer in the mail with crap about it.
I don't watch MSM directly, and I tell people to stop watching. I called it propaganda for years but as soon as Trump got elected I couldn't watch it any more.
Like Richard Spencer, it's propped up by the lying media.
My time in Gamergate and my time in TheDonald.win has taught me to get straight to the source to figure out if something is fake or not.
I wouldn't worry about what they see. Focus on what you see.
Yeah, from what I've seen from the QAnon posts, I'm pretty sure you could get most of that if you listened to Glen Greenwald, Tom Woods, or Michael Malice. The people who follow it tend to be over-excited boomers, though.
Yeah, no shit. There's collusion between finance and the intel agencies.
I used to listen to NPR. I had to stop listening because it started getting too crazy and too racist.
My consumption of MSM decreased steadily since I started going to college and completely goes away ever since Gamergate started.
Since then, my contempt for the MSM has only grown.
I have almost no tolerance for journalism at this point. It's not just an issue of "I don't respect journalists." I would be genuinely offended if I were around many of them.
I mentioned that Donna Hylton was in a video at the DNC and I had leftists saying: "I looked it up and that's QAnon bullshit...you can vote for whom you want, but you can't post QAnon bullshit."
I posted my source that "noted QAnon rag known as USA Today". The leftists wouldn't shut up and tripled down that it was just a conspiracy theory, she didn't do anything wrong. I posted links to her criminal record in the NY criminal records system and from court records of her appeal...
I'm actually starting to change my view on QAnon a bit. I used to think it was COINTEL to lull people into complacency, but I'm not seeing complacency from them. They're the ones out there attending the rallies, putting pressure on their state legislators, and now starting to physically fight back against antifa (it was a sight to behold watching footage of a bunch of overweight guys in their 50s beating Antifa with their Trump flagpoles at a protest in Olympia today).
Inasmuch as there's weaponized confusion in that movement, they seem to cut through all of it by simply concluding "The only person you can trust is Trump. Do whatever you can to defend Trump, and fight back against anyone who isn't defending Trump".
The QAnon people who are willing to go out and protest and crack skulls are a lot more useful right now than people I'm more politically aligned with but have the "too cool for school" attitude and spend all their time mocking the people out protesting and cracking skulls (not directed at you; I have specific other people in mind).
I'd be going to protests if I were in a place where there was some political dissent, but Trump won the state by 8 points so...
Instead I've been preaching Civil Disobedience against lockdown orders because that's more directly relevant to the normies around me, and is something they need to learn how to do. Not even just like fighting in the streets. Just realizing you don't have to obey what the sign says. You don't have to do the thing because you think someone might sanction you (even though it's not being enforced).
They've got to take these minor steps forward so that they start sticking up for, and encouraging one another, when they start having to do much harder things.
The normies accidentally revolted. When they voted for Trump, they revolted from the establishment, and the establishment took it very personally. Now they need to realize that they are at war, even if they didn't want to be in one.
I know. It scares the hell out of me, but there's nothing I can do to stop it. I served in Iraq. I know the level of extreme violence that civilians will engage in if pushed. God danmit I've been warning what would happen if the normies get pushed too hard.
As much as I hate the pinkos, I have to try and save them from the normies, because it's the only way to save the normies from themselves. They don't want to live the rest of their lives knowing that they were the bad guy, who did the terrible thing, that he's ashamed to tell his kids about, while thinking he was a hero for doing it. The last thing I want these fucking communists to do is manage to haunt the normies from within their own minds. They aren't worth it. They aren't worth anything at all.
As much as the Leftists would never believe me, and as much as the 'right' may condemn me. I'm one of the few people trying to save them from what I know is coming.
We've disagreed on some things in the past, but I agree with everything you said here. And I can respect a peacemaker who is so because he's had front row eats to horrors and violence that I'm sure I can't imagine.
I wasn't 'front row', but I was still in a place you'd consider the "splash zone".
The thing is that there's no way to get around the violence of a Civil War. The murals, memorials, and stories about lost friends just become everyday life. You just know to avoid places and things because you've learned what an ambush being set up looks like. It becomes part of everyone's life.
I tried to remind some of these college students I knew that in the Battle of Misrata during the Lybian Civil War, the reason Lybian tanks couldn't advance was primarily because the city had marshaled itself. There were tens of thousands of snipers. Anyone who had fired a gun slowly became an expert over hard months of fighting.
People aren't prepared to think that their plumber, banker, school teacher, garage mechanic, and waitress can become a sniper, a mortarman, a machine gunner, a demolitions expert, or TOW gunner. But it happens every time. The more the establishment pushes, the harder it all breaks down, and the worse the normies respond. It's just a common fact that you should always prefer being captured by conventional forces than partisan irregulars. The partisans are formerly normal people, or worse: opportunistic criminals and sociopaths. They're always more violent and uncontrolled. If you get captured by them, your primary objective won't be to escape, but survive the initial encounter.
That's what war does to people, and when someone says "I'll just keep using force and I'll get what I want!", there will be an angry response in the other direction. They just can't imagine it because they think they're "on the right side of history" or are "the good guys" while they keep attacking innocent people.
It's better to save the filthy communist than to let the normies... all of them... stoop to their level.
I'm sincere. I've hated establishment conservatives since I was a teenager, which caused me to vote Libertarian for well over a decade, including in 2008 and 2012, even though I passively wanted R to win. It then became evident that the Libertarians were co-oped and I went to Trump.
It's so clear in my head what is going on, but impossible to fight.
The MSM would ignore it in any case. Which is not to say that it is good for the signal-to-noise ratio to be bad.
Whether or not the fraud is great enough for Trump to have actually won, I don't know. I do know that regardless of what happened, it is exceedingly unlikely for the powers that be to relinquish their victory. That's not going to happen in any case.
After the Georgia bombshell, shut the fuck up. Acknowledge that the election was stolen, or get the fuck out, reality denier.
No one has to repeat your pieties. Sit down. This is a place for independent thought, not your personal hivemind.
See this is exactly what I'm talking about, thank you.
I do believe that the Georgia "under the table" ballot boxes were fraud, and is part of the signal that is being drowned by noise.
Given the dozens of posts about the Georgia situation (including more being posted even now by the looks of it), I doubt that it was drowned out by noise.
We are not letting the Georgia fraud problem die off THAT easily. Especially since Trump have played footage of the video evidence in the rally last night. The amount of people blind to this decrease even more.
You need to learn quick that managing morale among your troops takes a lot more than a bit of shouting. Keep that up, and you're guaranteed to lose men to desertion.
I think your way of thinking is outdated.
We're in a weird phase where people have openly stopped pretending that facts matter. Essentially what's happening now is that a narrative is being built for what is to follow.
Anarcho-tyranny
The Trump movement was never about Trump. Trump was just the impersonator of that ideia. The struggle continues and goes on, with or without Trump. The struggle is fueled by the demographic decline of White America and the ongoing attack on it in all levels of public institutions, economic opportunities, cultural representation, etc, etc. This is just the beginning. I would like to see Trump for a new political party and try to capitalize on all this energy.
I don't know about TD.win, but the amount of evidence of fraud is truly overwhelming. Even without the CCTV footage that came out recently, even without all our suspicions of the Dominion machines, in a lot of these states simply the number of people who voted despite not being eligible is enough to flip them.
For detailed coverage I suggest checking out Uzalu's channel on YouTube and his Discord community. We've watched almost all the hearings in their entirety, which means I've seen probably 15-20 hours of damning witness testimony (all of them backed up by sworn affidavits).
Yes, while we are distracted the establishments will play.
Did TD.win have a post election plan for the site and the .win network as a whole? I said a few times (over there) that I think TD.win really needed to link to a news.win or some form of homepage to keep everything moving forward after the election. This would matter regardless of whether Trump won or not.
I know I have certainly stopped going to TD.win after the election because there doesn't seem to be any reasonable discussions there anymore. Nothing but noise now, the site feels useless. I pretty much get my election news from Parler and youtube podcasters now, but even with that I don't pay much attention anymore. Unless I hear of an actual Trump victory, I've pretty much blackpilled and accepted that the establishment uniparty has taken control again for now. Things aren't going to change until the normies REALLY start to feel pain.
I doubt that. To put this into perspective: that would put us at around the level of KiA2's Reddit during the lockdown, when we had slightly more than 900 people who were approved. These, of course, were some of the most dedicated users that we had. But still at any given moment, we had fewer than 100.
Casual users almost definitely did not leave. The most devoted did, the people who do most of the posting and for whom TD was a main reason to stay on Reddit. I'm guessing that at the very least, they have 10,000 subscribers, but more likely in excess of 100,000.
I couldn't get approved because I only lurked in KiA2. I had no choice to come here, glad I did though.
If you still want to post on the subreddit, try again.
I'm okay here, thank you.
Give it a couple months. This election fraud talk does have a hard time limit, after all.
Democrats are STILL complaining about Russia stealing the election.
At some point, if Old Kneeler becomes president, people have to put it aside and focus on getting actually productive stuff done.
Definitely growing based on many metrics I looked at. TD.win viewership is constantly growing and climbing the ranks (which is why our enemies unleashed shills on the site in an attempt to take it down). Trump is still pulling very large rallies even a week after the election (I saw last night's livestream rally, the size and energy is vey intense, probably just as intense or even more so than the pre-election rallies)...
I think the election fraud issue struck a big nerve in many people, Trump supporter or otherwise. People REALLY don't like being cheated, and the bigger the cheat, the angrier that people get. I think there are many converts to Trump's side because the illusion of fair elections was shattered and anybody not overtly brainwashed by the MSM can see who is doing the cheating at this point.
Define reasonable. Not being hostile, but reasonable is a subjective term depending on the context.
Deluding ourselves over what issue or problem exactly?
Excellent, I was hoping to have the opportunity to ask a TD user about something. I was never really a member or lurker there, but I do have a fondness for them because they tend to foster a charming sort of sincerity and kindness amongst themselves. Lately, when I pop over to take a look, I haven't been seeing that, so I was a little concerned. Though that can be explained by simply getting a big surge of new users that are very enthusiastic about, erm, productivity.
So, what I really want to ask is about the "energy" and memes. The "energy" of the pro-trump memes was high in 2016. I would describe the current state of their memes as lower energy now. Do you have any insight or guesses for this?
My own theory right now has to do with the partial purpose of TD to act as a perpetual hype train. You can generate hype to spur creativity and motivation (two of the elements that make up "energy"), but over a long period, there are diminishing returns as people experience a form of mild burnout/exhaustion. Now, by design, a hype train picks up new passengers to contribute and revitalize and replace exhausted members. But what if the new passengers get on board without understanding "energy"? Then the memes will naturally become distorted. It could even explain a false call to blame of others being "low energy".
It depends on how you define it. I think his supporters grew in that more people kind of woke up to the MSM conditioning but I definitely don’t see him winning the election. You can’t deny that Normies hate the dude and that they were mailing in their ballots like Beyoncé told them to.
Trump got 11,236,752 more votes than he did in 2016.
There is no way he lost the election IF it was free of fraud.
The CNN/MSNBC watching normie brainlets do hate him but they are not enough for the Democrats to win a fair election.
The question remains is can Trump clutch out the win by exposing the fraud in the Supreme Court or by the legislatures depriving Biden of 270 electors.
That is still up in the air.
No way you can tell me with a straight face that Biden and the worst campaign anyone in the U.S. anyone has ever run was rewarded with the highest number of votes in history.
If you honestly believe that nonsense, I got a bridge to sell you.
It wasn’t about Biden though, it was about “stopping drumpf”. The better question is do I believe the anti-Trump sentiment that pervaded popular culture for the last 4 years was enough to motivate a record number of voters, and I can go either way on that.
Look at this then you will see the overwhelming evidence of fraud.
It is clear what happened. There is nothing to have mixed feelings about. This was NOT normies with hate against Trump winning it fairly for Biden. This was massive amounts of fraud in purposely targetted key swing states.
https://hereistheevidence.com/
No fucking way that Biden won this since this clownfire of an election was far from a fair and honest election.