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exilde 12 points ago +12 / -0

Free trade lets people accustomed to living in dirt and shit produce goods at prices that American workers and manufacturers can't compete with while maintaining a high standard of living.

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exilde 10 points ago +10 / -0

I'm against policy that destroys our middle class, and these two forces were probably the most destructive. I wouldn't call myself conservative, though free trade always struck me as a trojan horse slipped into conservatism by neocons.

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exilde 43 points ago +49 / -6

Also, Open Borders and Free Trade.

Fuck off, lolberts.

5
exilde 5 points ago +5 / -0

If removing it violates state curriculum mandates, the school system risks their accreditation and their funding. If the state bars it through mandate, it risks 1A litigation. The left is pretty good at working the system to impose their will.

1
exilde 1 point ago +1 / -0

Actually, reading up on it more over the last couple of days, the stretch from downtown Tulsa and into Greenwood main street was considered the vice area, where you could find booze and prostitutes. So yeah... my initial impression seems to be increasingly validated the more I read.

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5631&context=open_access_etds

Pages 37-39 if you're interested.

Anyway, I attribute crime to race, because that's what you see in every fucking socioeconomic decile but the absolute top, which as even you acknowledge filters out the worst anti-social behaviors. Your worldview only works in extreme cases, which would cause a rational person to question its validity.

13
exilde 13 points ago +14 / -1

and yet, we can't have prayer in schools?

You can, it just can't be promoted by a state agent. CRT is a secular religion, but it's not viewed as such legally, granting it a lot of flexibility.

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exilde 16 points ago +19 / -3

The 1A prevents them from doing much but halting affirmation of the curriculum. Essentially, as long as the curriculum isn't graded, it's likely to be found constitutionally protected. Liberty only works in a moral population, unfortunately.

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exilde 34 points ago +34 / -0

The issue is that red states are banning something they've already mandated under a different name in most states. In education it's called Social Emotional Learning, which was sold as a way to help children develop character, emotional growth, and tolerance, but has quickly morphed into outright CRT. It's a rather insidious alliance of lobbyists, curriculum providers, and activists.

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exilde 28 points ago +28 / -0

They've been teaching it in schools for the last 3-5 years across the nation. It goes under the guise of social emotional learning (SEL). CASEL is pushing it, if anyone is curious.

1
exilde 1 point ago +1 / -0

From the outset, I told you data from the era sucked, and I'm not digging through microfilm archives to convince you that Greenwoods 200 businesses and 6 paved roads weren't a massive civilization achievement (that they rebuilt in about 4 years).

I never said these people worked in the oil fields. I said Tusla was a boomtown, which brings a criminal element. Grifters, shysters and thugs, trying to get in on some of the wealth that's flowing. It happens everywhere a town booms. This made it a high crime area (again, find your own microfilm), but also a place where people needed and could afford servants and shoeshines. Most of the black population of Greenwood served as menial labor in Tulsa. Those 200 businesses probably didn't even employ 10% of Greenwoods 10,000 inhabitants, but I'm just basing that on the fact that hardly any of the businesses would have likely had more than 2-3 workers. The Stradford is exceptional in that, and I don't see many other exceptions.

If it were just Black British and African Americans, I might be inclined to give it some credence, but violence seems universal to black populations anywhere on the globe. Maybe you actually believe Ghana's reported homicide rate, but that's on you. Same as your belief in a Wakandan Greenwood.

As to the end, they're referencing both the high crime and vigilantism. When a town booms and crime rises, inadequate legal institutions fail, and people tend to take matters into their own hands. That's not really a Tulsa thing, just a pattern that often played out across the US.

E: Let's go back a little bit, here.

It was prosperous by all the data I've seen

What data have you seen that suggested this? I think the only thing I've come across that would even come close to such an appraisal is an Ebony article.

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exilde 2 points ago +2 / -0

Yes, but only when they're aligned. Faction destroys power, and diversity promotes faction.

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exilde 5 points ago +5 / -0

Occupation isn't the only option, though. It's probably the worst option, unless you just need human resources that badly.

5
exilde 5 points ago +5 / -0

Whatever reprisal happens, it will still need to be proportionate in order to be legitimate.

Complete seems to give lasting legitimacy better than proportionate.

You don't see Picts bitching about things, do you?

6
exilde 6 points ago +6 / -0

Human freedom is the most subversive possible weapon that will generate the least possible harm to society at large against the Left. It's just not an easy task, and it won't prevent the Left from occasionally lashing out and killing a thousand people in a fit of rage.

Or millions.

Your "solution" doesn't seem so much like a solution, just a constant battle of attrition. Not sure how that inflicts the least harm.

Either way, when they lash out, it will invite inevitable, justified reprisal.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like you to be correct, but it seems like a path of prolonged suffering more than anything.

1
exilde 1 point ago +1 / -0

“There were people who did quite well, who lived in nice two-story homes with pianos and chandeliers and nice furniture,” Ellsworth said. “(But) it’s important to remember though that the vast majority of people who lived in Greenwood were poor, and they lived in shanties and shacks.” Only months before the massacre, the National Association of Social Workers had a meeting in Tulsa and found that about 90% of the African American population lived without indoor plumbing.

https://archive.is/91q2s

There's the reality. Not your idealized notion that fits your personal beliefs.

Hell, you have to look to 250k+ annual income communities to find a "middle class" black area that conforms to your worldview.

Businesses to people doesn't make a lot of sense. That might include plenty of people who are not going to be working like children, women, and the elderly. Additionally, businesses are not 1:1. In places like this, you'd be looking at a major corporation employing a bulk of people.

The largest employer you're probably going to find in Greenwood would have been the Stradford Hotel. Most of the businesses were mom and pop shops. Most of the population were Tulsa service industry workers. NYT lists them all with a nifty 3d map, if you want to find something bigger. Seems the biggest, though. Try not to be so pedantic.

If it's "most people are fine", then there isn't really a discussion that needs to be had.

"Most people" aren't the problem. It's the few shitty ones that come disproportionately from certain demographics. Western society can handle some shit, but it doesn't take much to overload our processing ability. I don't pretend to be moderate, because I'm not, but I always judge individuals individually.

Culture explains the vast and sweeping majority of the differences both between and within races and ethnic groups.

It doesn't. Black British culture has the same disproportion of homicide we see in the US. The only difference is the smaller size of the Black British population relative to other demographic groups. The black population of the US has always been disproportionately criminal, for as long as we have records on it. Even Jefferson remarked on it, though he thought they could be taught morality some day. Is your working theory that Black British and African American culture are the same? Is it that African American culture has always been awful, and therefore conducive to this sort of behavior? Do you have more than excuses?

Low functioning MAOA makes more sense. We're still only talking about ~5% of the US black population, but it's plenty to cause issues.

Edit: Forgot to address the crime rate. https://archive.is/TusdI

However, Tulsa was also a deeply troubled town. Crime rates were extremely high, and the city had been plagued by vigilantism, including the August 1920 lynching, by a white mob, of a white teenager accused of murder. Newspaper reports confirmed that the Tulsa police had done little to protect the lynching victim, who had been taken from his jail cell at the county courthouse.

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exilde 6 points ago +6 / -0

What's the path to winning against the "Left", while minimizing harm?

1
exilde 1 point ago +1 / -0

Historians say crime was rife due to the Tulsa oil field discovery bringing lots of money and opportunity in. Pretty common dynamic. In this environment, Greenwood had about 200 business to 10,000 people. The "favella" nature of it is noted. Most of the inhabitants were service workers in Tulsa proper. Its prosperity has always been overstated, simply because it's black. There were some middle class, a few rich, and a lot of poor. It's a neat thing that happened, but it wasn't quite the massive achievement people like to portray it as.

I don't give a shit about a black "man". Individuals should be judged individually, and the majority are fine of any race. It's the black "group" thing that matters. There are a lot of good black people, but there is a disproportionate tendency for violence. You won't really find it in the top decile, but it's in the demographic. Genetics explain a lot more than culture. Reduced functioning MAOA repeat allele variants prevalent in black populations not only fit the correlation, but the causation, due to the nature of the MAO-A enzyme.

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exilde 13 points ago +13 / -0

If the whole world media told people that incest was good, would people start screwing their siblings?

Give it time. It's an angle being worked.

Granted, I think we're going to reset things before we get to that point, but no bridge seems too far.

Edit:

I don't believe this theory, no one can convince you to do something you don't want to.

This should be addressed. You're not looking at this correctly. We all want to do terrible things, at least at some level. That's human nature. The issue arises when society (or at least the perception of society) gives you license for your terrible desires.

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exilde 7 points ago +8 / -1

We're probably 6 or 7 generations into that. The single mother and patriarchy things were products of the 60's, and the fashionable rejection of tradition that came with it. That's when Marxist infiltration really started to find broad success in the US, though it had been brewing and adapting, largely in NYC, since the 1890's.

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exilde 13 points ago +13 / -0

Fair enough, but we made it about 100 years without too many ill-effects. Women weren't so much a root problem, just an easily exploitable vector of subversion.

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