You're claiming intimate knowledge of African cultures by one institution of an American ghetto?
That's utterly stupid.
It's no different from saying, "Europeans have proven their inability to have a stationary culture because white Americans live in Trailer Parks."
And you still don't understand the relationship between fear, power, and duty. If a culture focuses heavily on power, fear of that consequences from that power are a natural result. So is the concept of duty, stemming from obligations both to and from power. They will both exist. To claim that only one can exist is idiocy. If you look in the most culturally degenerated places on Earth, like prisons, you will still find a concept of duty emerge among people as either a form of homage to the powerful, or a duty for the powerful to protect those who sear fealty.
...the code of silence. This is done out of fear of reprisal, not honor.
Then you don't know anything about those communities. A code of silence is not held out of fear. It can be re-enforced by fear, but it does not exist solely out of fear. A code of silence is an obligation to the community not to let outsiders interfere. A violation of a code of silence is a threat to some, but it is an action taken against a community as a whole by allowing outsiders in.
I don't understand how you could think a code of silence, which is most famous from the Italian mob, is evidence of something innately African.
Fear-power, honor-shame, and guilt-innocence cultures aren't mutually exclusive. Each feature can play a role, but African cultures are generally Fear-Power, Asian cultures Honor-Shame, and European cultures Guilt-Innocence as their primary features. Honor-shame culture has a requisite for shame, and that is not the motivation we're talking about here. Duty through fear is not really duty at all. It's coercion.
Snitches get stitches. The fear-power dynamic is very strong in the AA community. Yes, family members don't want to turn in their relatives, but beyond that, snitching will get you (or your kids) shot. Omerta isn't too different, tthough other aspects of mafia culture certainly had at least a veneer of honor-shame to it, including generally leaving women and children off limits.
You look at things too much in black and white. It's not all or nothing. Shame just isn't as powerful of a motivator as fear in African culture.
Anyway, I see African cultures tend towards fear-power dynamics generally wherever they establish. Even BLM trends this way. It doesn't appeal so much to a sense of fairness or honor, but instead to fear to achieve its aims.
Each feature can play a role, but African cultures are generally Fear-Power, Asian cultures Honor-Shame, and European cultures Guilt-Innocence as their primary features.
It's ridiculous that you are trying to segregate out Guilt & Shame. You are drawing ridiculous abstractions in cultures that use literally all of the above.
Snitches get stitches. The fear-power dynamic is very strong in the AA community
No, that's a strong dynamic in ghettos and prisons. It's also shared across the world by many different cultures.
You look at things too much in black and white. It's not all or nothing.
You're projecting wildly.
Anyway, I see African cultures tend towards fear-power dynamics generally wherever they establish.
No, you look at historical examples and if you find a relationship between fear & honor (which you always will) you affirm your own narrative. You look for something universal in only specific places, and you're amazed when you find it. Then you dismiss it when you weren't looking for it everywhere else.
Even BLM trends this way. It doesn't appeal so much to a sense of fairness or honor, but instead to fear to achieve its aims.
An activist organization built off of Marxism which pushes resentment is involved in power politics. No shit. That's an amazing find, Holmes.
Not only that, but they make constant appeals to fairness and honor. You're just choosing to reject the information that isn't fitting your narrative.
It's ridiculous that you are trying to segregate out Guilt & Shame. You are drawing ridiculous abstractions in cultures that use literally all of the above.
No, that's a strong dynamic in ghettos and prisons. It's also shared across the world by many different cultures.
See above. It's not a new observation.
You're projecting wildly.
There is nuance in every argument. I never said those of African descent are incapable of feeling duty or shame, but that these aren't the main motivators in the cultures. Quite possibly to the point that it wasn't a concept that needed described. Reliability is a perpetual issue in the African workforce just as it is in the African American workforce. Not, I'm talking about a group. This is not a statement that all Africans or African Americans are unreliable. Don't take it as a black and white statement.
No, you look at historical examples and if you find a relationship between fear & honor (which you always will) you affirm your own narrative. You look for something universal in only specific places, and you're amazed when you find it. Then you dismiss it when you weren't looking for it everywhere else.
Fear and honor aren't really related, unless you're referring specifically to the fear of shame. In which case, it would be nice if you use shame for clarity.
An activist organization built off of Marxism which pushes resentment is involved in power politics. No shit. That's an amazing find, Holmes.
Not only that, but they make constant appeals to fairness and honor. You're just choosing to reject the information that isn't fitting your narrative.
Superficially, yes, they demand "no justice, no peace". However, justice is being served, and fairness exists by any objective measure. Peace, however, does not.
There is nuance in every argument. I never said those of African descent are incapable of feeling duty or shame, but that these aren't the main motivators in the cultures.
You're insinuating that race is a determinant of culture (even more than cultural exposure) you're lumping all African cultures together (even ones with European influence), and you are insinuating the racial lineage of African cultures is what makes them incapable of having independently developed the concept of a duty/promise, and you've decided that that is indicated by creating an abstraction about power & fear while rejecting the influence of other emotions and abstract concepts.
Your whole narrative is logically flawed from beginning to end.
Fear and honor aren't really related, unless you're referring specifically to the fear of shame. In which case, it would be nice if you use shame for clarity.
You're the one intentionally segregating these concepts as if they are totally independent of each other. That's your problem, not mine.
However, justice is being served, and fairness exists by any objective measure.
You're claiming intimate knowledge of African cultures by one institution of an American ghetto?
That's utterly stupid.
It's no different from saying, "Europeans have proven their inability to have a stationary culture because white Americans live in Trailer Parks."
And you still don't understand the relationship between fear, power, and duty. If a culture focuses heavily on power, fear of that consequences from that power are a natural result. So is the concept of duty, stemming from obligations both to and from power. They will both exist. To claim that only one can exist is idiocy. If you look in the most culturally degenerated places on Earth, like prisons, you will still find a concept of duty emerge among people as either a form of homage to the powerful, or a duty for the powerful to protect those who sear fealty.
Then you don't know anything about those communities. A code of silence is not held out of fear. It can be re-enforced by fear, but it does not exist solely out of fear. A code of silence is an obligation to the community not to let outsiders interfere. A violation of a code of silence is a threat to some, but it is an action taken against a community as a whole by allowing outsiders in.
I don't understand how you could think a code of silence, which is most famous from the Italian mob, is evidence of something innately African.
Fear-power, honor-shame, and guilt-innocence cultures aren't mutually exclusive. Each feature can play a role, but African cultures are generally Fear-Power, Asian cultures Honor-Shame, and European cultures Guilt-Innocence as their primary features. Honor-shame culture has a requisite for shame, and that is not the motivation we're talking about here. Duty through fear is not really duty at all. It's coercion.
Snitches get stitches. The fear-power dynamic is very strong in the AA community. Yes, family members don't want to turn in their relatives, but beyond that, snitching will get you (or your kids) shot. Omerta isn't too different, tthough other aspects of mafia culture certainly had at least a veneer of honor-shame to it, including generally leaving women and children off limits.
You look at things too much in black and white. It's not all or nothing. Shame just isn't as powerful of a motivator as fear in African culture.
Anyway, I see African cultures tend towards fear-power dynamics generally wherever they establish. Even BLM trends this way. It doesn't appeal so much to a sense of fairness or honor, but instead to fear to achieve its aims.
It's ridiculous that you are trying to segregate out Guilt & Shame. You are drawing ridiculous abstractions in cultures that use literally all of the above.
No, that's a strong dynamic in ghettos and prisons. It's also shared across the world by many different cultures.
You're projecting wildly.
No, you look at historical examples and if you find a relationship between fear & honor (which you always will) you affirm your own narrative. You look for something universal in only specific places, and you're amazed when you find it. Then you dismiss it when you weren't looking for it everywhere else.
An activist organization built off of Marxism which pushes resentment is involved in power politics. No shit. That's an amazing find, Holmes.
Not only that, but they make constant appeals to fairness and honor. You're just choosing to reject the information that isn't fitting your narrative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt-shame-fear_spectrum_of_cultures
It's... not that ridiculous.
See above. It's not a new observation.
There is nuance in every argument. I never said those of African descent are incapable of feeling duty or shame, but that these aren't the main motivators in the cultures. Quite possibly to the point that it wasn't a concept that needed described. Reliability is a perpetual issue in the African workforce just as it is in the African American workforce. Not, I'm talking about a group. This is not a statement that all Africans or African Americans are unreliable. Don't take it as a black and white statement.
Fear and honor aren't really related, unless you're referring specifically to the fear of shame. In which case, it would be nice if you use shame for clarity.
Superficially, yes, they demand "no justice, no peace". However, justice is being served, and fairness exists by any objective measure. Peace, however, does not.
You're insinuating that race is a determinant of culture (even more than cultural exposure) you're lumping all African cultures together (even ones with European influence), and you are insinuating the racial lineage of African cultures is what makes them incapable of having independently developed the concept of a duty/promise, and you've decided that that is indicated by creating an abstraction about power & fear while rejecting the influence of other emotions and abstract concepts.
Your whole narrative is logically flawed from beginning to end.
You're the one intentionally segregating these concepts as if they are totally independent of each other. That's your problem, not mine.
Objective fairness and justice do not exist.