It's ridiculous that you are trying to segregate out Guilt & Shame. You are drawing ridiculous abstractions in cultures that use literally all of the above.
No, that's a strong dynamic in ghettos and prisons. It's also shared across the world by many different cultures.
See above. It's not a new observation.
You're projecting wildly.
There is nuance in every argument. I never said those of African descent are incapable of feeling duty or shame, but that these aren't the main motivators in the cultures. Quite possibly to the point that it wasn't a concept that needed described. Reliability is a perpetual issue in the African workforce just as it is in the African American workforce. Not, I'm talking about a group. This is not a statement that all Africans or African Americans are unreliable. Don't take it as a black and white statement.
No, you look at historical examples and if you find a relationship between fear & honor (which you always will) you affirm your own narrative. You look for something universal in only specific places, and you're amazed when you find it. Then you dismiss it when you weren't looking for it everywhere else.
Fear and honor aren't really related, unless you're referring specifically to the fear of shame. In which case, it would be nice if you use shame for clarity.
An activist organization built off of Marxism which pushes resentment is involved in power politics. No shit. That's an amazing find, Holmes.
Not only that, but they make constant appeals to fairness and honor. You're just choosing to reject the information that isn't fitting your narrative.
Superficially, yes, they demand "no justice, no peace". However, justice is being served, and fairness exists by any objective measure. Peace, however, does not.
There is nuance in every argument. I never said those of African descent are incapable of feeling duty or shame, but that these aren't the main motivators in the cultures.
You're insinuating that race is a determinant of culture (even more than cultural exposure) you're lumping all African cultures together (even ones with European influence), and you are insinuating the racial lineage of African cultures is what makes them incapable of having independently developed the concept of a duty/promise, and you've decided that that is indicated by creating an abstraction about power & fear while rejecting the influence of other emotions and abstract concepts.
Your whole narrative is logically flawed from beginning to end.
Fear and honor aren't really related, unless you're referring specifically to the fear of shame. In which case, it would be nice if you use shame for clarity.
You're the one intentionally segregating these concepts as if they are totally independent of each other. That's your problem, not mine.
However, justice is being served, and fairness exists by any objective measure.
The word "strongly" is a problem here. Genetics will determine the total spectrum of human capacity for emotion, as a species. It can tell us what rests at all 3 standard deviations of human capacity for emotion. Heredity can determine some predisposition for emotional states, which can be expressed through behavior. However, these predispositions are never a guaranteed outcome. This is why two children with the same parents can have different emotional frameworks. However, direct environmental pressures can have a far more dramatic effect on someone's emotional state.
Ritualistically rape and starve someone for 20 years by their parents, who is predisposed genetically to be gentile, and they will not be a gentile person.
Part of the problem I see with people who are taking a genetic determinist stance is that they refuse to recognize that environment can effect genes. We know that some genes are activated by environmental pressures, and we also know that sex-selection is not random nor purely genetic.
do you believe that generalized behavior helps inform how a culture develops?
Behavior informs culture, but culture also informs behavior. Culture is one part of the environment which can cultivate behavior. A culture may be modified by individuals behaving differently, and the society adopting the new behavior, but a culture may promote the conditioning of people to behave in a certain way. It's a lot of give-and-take.
I really appreciate the response. I know I annoy you, but I hope you realize I appreciate what you do, even if we disagree. Same goes for AoV. Best faggot jannies ever. Sincerely.
who is predisposed genetically to be gentile, and they will not be a gentile person.
Is this a slip of the tongue? Kidding, I know it is. But seriously... christ man.
If you mean gentle, I completely agree. Genetics are not determination. They are simply predisposition. This simple fact is why I would never judge and individual based on some preconceived genetic expectation. On the individual level, we have extreme variation. When I speak of groups, I'm talking about disproportionate outcomes, not individual actions.
Behavior informs culture, but culture also informs behavior. Culture is one part of the environment which can cultivate behavior. A culture may be modified by individuals behaving differently, and the society adopting the new behavior, but a culture may promote the conditioning of people to behave in a certain way. It's a lot of give-and-take.
See. Right here. We have complete agreement. Our real contention on this point is evolution of African culture. Only in global context though. African culture evolved the way it did for a reason, and when everything is said an done, they may be the most viable people standing. Diversity is strength.
I get why you hate IDpol. I did for a long time. I do think that there is an element beneficial to survival by setting that anchor, though. Not where I wanted to be, but it seems to be where we are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt-shame-fear_spectrum_of_cultures
It's... not that ridiculous.
See above. It's not a new observation.
There is nuance in every argument. I never said those of African descent are incapable of feeling duty or shame, but that these aren't the main motivators in the cultures. Quite possibly to the point that it wasn't a concept that needed described. Reliability is a perpetual issue in the African workforce just as it is in the African American workforce. Not, I'm talking about a group. This is not a statement that all Africans or African Americans are unreliable. Don't take it as a black and white statement.
Fear and honor aren't really related, unless you're referring specifically to the fear of shame. In which case, it would be nice if you use shame for clarity.
Superficially, yes, they demand "no justice, no peace". However, justice is being served, and fairness exists by any objective measure. Peace, however, does not.
You're insinuating that race is a determinant of culture (even more than cultural exposure) you're lumping all African cultures together (even ones with European influence), and you are insinuating the racial lineage of African cultures is what makes them incapable of having independently developed the concept of a duty/promise, and you've decided that that is indicated by creating an abstraction about power & fear while rejecting the influence of other emotions and abstract concepts.
Your whole narrative is logically flawed from beginning to end.
You're the one intentionally segregating these concepts as if they are totally independent of each other. That's your problem, not mine.
Objective fairness and justice do not exist.
Do you believe behavior is strongly influenced by genetics, and do you believe that generalized behavior helps inform how a culture develops?
The word "strongly" is a problem here. Genetics will determine the total spectrum of human capacity for emotion, as a species. It can tell us what rests at all 3 standard deviations of human capacity for emotion. Heredity can determine some predisposition for emotional states, which can be expressed through behavior. However, these predispositions are never a guaranteed outcome. This is why two children with the same parents can have different emotional frameworks. However, direct environmental pressures can have a far more dramatic effect on someone's emotional state.
Ritualistically rape and starve someone for 20 years by their parents, who is predisposed genetically to be gentile, and they will not be a gentile person.
Part of the problem I see with people who are taking a genetic determinist stance is that they refuse to recognize that environment can effect genes. We know that some genes are activated by environmental pressures, and we also know that sex-selection is not random nor purely genetic.
Behavior informs culture, but culture also informs behavior. Culture is one part of the environment which can cultivate behavior. A culture may be modified by individuals behaving differently, and the society adopting the new behavior, but a culture may promote the conditioning of people to behave in a certain way. It's a lot of give-and-take.
I really appreciate the response. I know I annoy you, but I hope you realize I appreciate what you do, even if we disagree. Same goes for AoV. Best faggot jannies ever. Sincerely.
Is this a slip of the tongue? Kidding, I know it is. But seriously... christ man.
If you mean gentle, I completely agree. Genetics are not determination. They are simply predisposition. This simple fact is why I would never judge and individual based on some preconceived genetic expectation. On the individual level, we have extreme variation. When I speak of groups, I'm talking about disproportionate outcomes, not individual actions.
See. Right here. We have complete agreement. Our real contention on this point is evolution of African culture. Only in global context though. African culture evolved the way it did for a reason, and when everything is said an done, they may be the most viable people standing. Diversity is strength.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048999/
I get why you hate IDpol. I did for a long time. I do think that there is an element beneficial to survival by setting that anchor, though. Not where I wanted to be, but it seems to be where we are.