I mean, he's right. Having the option of free healthcare is better than not having the option of free healthcare, especially when that free healthcare does get the job done in a timely fashion most of the time.
The most absurd thing in the US is going to the doctor just to get a prescription and having it cost you $100 just to breath the same air as them for 5 minutes. That straight up doesn't happen Europe, and you can usually get such an appointment on the same or next day, no problem.
Free Healthcare is a good thing. The reason the US won't do it is because Americans - even democrats - would freak the fuck out the second they got told stop being fat shits and stop eating heart attack and diabetes fuel.
They'd see the first signs of a sugar tax and go apeshit.
You think here people are healthier? There are taxes on junk food, and everything else (my 10-pound dog has a tax on her and it earns you nothing, I have to pay for medical care, vaccination, chip, everything).
But that doesn't change anything. People still eat like shit, it just costs more. People still don't go to regular checkups. They money procured through putting extra tax on crisps and soda are, in theory, for medical stuff, but you don't see any of that as it's lost in the budget.
Another thing is, companies make their products shittier to avoid tax. I don't drink energy drinks because I don't care for them, but since they introduced this tax energy drinks became lower in the very things that make them ENERGY drinks. They didn't become cheaper, no. Just shittier.
This did not stop ANYONE from eating certain things.
Our experiences are very different. Have you ever tried waiting a week with a tooth that hurt like fuck, even though you paid out of your high as fuck taxes for medical care?
My ex-coworker has to wait months with spinal issues that made him miss work because he couldn't get out of bed. My late grandpa was losing his sight and he would have had to wait months to deteriorate further if he didn't pay. A family member has hearth issues, her dad died of a heart attack. She could feel something was wrong. Her appointment for a full cardiology checkup? In a couple months.
I also work in a healthcare-adjacent field, both for private and government funded doctors. I do see the difference. Not saying all gov ones such, but if you need something elaborate, you WILL have to go to private because they government only provides the basics and that's it. They won't go fancy on your ass.
This did not stop ANYONE from eating certain things.
Unless they magically found more money, I guarantee that they'll eat less of it over time.
I also work in a healthcare-adjacent field, both for private and government funded doctors. I do see the difference. Not saying all gov ones such, but if you need something elaborate, you WILL have to go to private because they government only provides the basics and that's it. They won't go fancy on your ass.
For most-of-most-people's lives, they will not need urgent prodcedures. People might bitch and moan about waiting times for certain things, but the reason those waiting times are there is because, shock, a free service is serving more people than a service that is often very expensive.
If you feel you can't wait for the free service and have the money to go private, great! Good for you! Do it! But there are vastly more people who either can wait, can't pay, or, more often than not, both.
I lived in the US for 4 years. In that brief time I spent more money on healthcare than I have in the 28 years I have been in the UK, despite that fact that I have spent 2 weeks in an NHS hospital hooked up to oxygen, and approximately 6 hours in American ones.
I'm sure you can prove the results of it. I can't see it, I don't see it on the shopping habits of anyone I know. I also don't see people's general health being better since the introduction of it.
Again, I am against a nanny state trying to punish people and basically soft ban things. Either leave us alone OR try proper banning and see the reactions.
There is proof of promiscuity being bad for you. I want to soft punish people for it. Same for using computers/pones too much. Coffee and tea? Makeup and plastic surgery! International travel can be dangerous too. Pets in general, especially dogs and among those certain breeds. Extreme sports.
Can we fuck with everyone please? Life is deadly after all.
First of all, "free" healthcare is NOT free. A huge chunk of every paycheck I get goes to the government as a tax. To me it absolutely fucking isn't free. Maybe it is free for the illegals and welfare queens, but I sure as hell pay for it, even though I am healthy at this point in my life.
Define urgent. A heart issue you know is there, but you don't know what it is exactly and how bad it is should be considered urgent. Things causing you debilitating pain, limiting your movement, stopping you from living a full life (working, doing shit in your free time, playing with your kids, driving, etc.) should be urgent.
And it isn't. Is that whining to you? Because have never had to experience it, your state deteriorating very fast while you still have weeks to your surgery or treatment.
Let me guess, it's not urgent if I'm not bleeding out right now.
I am not going to dig around in your pocket, but I sure as hell wouldn't expect US taxpayers to pay for my health issues. Just like I did not do it living in Sweden, when I needed dental care. It was a fuckton of money, but at the same time I wasn't a taxpaying Swedish citizen.
Like all commie ideas, "free" (taxpayer funded, government controlled) healthcare is only a positive if you are a zero-ambition pauper or an outright parasite who is looking to get as much as possible while contributing as little as possible.
I'm not a fan of medicare but its is a compromise I can live with. But like all compromises it is never enough for them. The commies keep try to expand it, and the allegedly small government republicans are for some reason out commieing the commie democrats on that front.
Like all commie ideas, "free" (taxpayer funded, government controlled) healthcare is only a positive if you are a zero-ambition pauper or an outright parasite who is looking to get as much as possible while contributing as little as possible.
This is just absolute nonsense spouted by someone with zero experience of living in a country with universal healthcare.
A trip to the emergency room in the US can very easily run over $30,000. If that trip is caused by, say, a poisonous snake bite, you may be looking at over a $100,000. Long term hospital stays with needs for multiple operations and physical therapy can run over a million dollars.
You don't have to be 'zero-ambition pauper' or an 'outright parasite' to not be cool with the idea of never being able to buy a house because you accrued financially devastating medical debts in a car accident in your 20's.
If you want to talk about parasites, look at insurance companies. Literally no different to gamblers.
If we are going with "it works most of the time" that applies pretty well to the American system too. Those "broke and destitute" from medical bills people are rare cases and usually people who brought it on themselves (like those fat shits!) who I'd freak the fuck out if I had to waste tax money supporting. The rare upon rare case of freak accidents bankrupting are a problem, but all systems have cracks and usually these days are covered by GoFundMe esque charity. A tragedy, but utopia isn't available yet.
Plus for every one of those I could find you someone who wasn't cared for properly by the free healthcare providers, either they had to wait too long, they weren't treated carefully enough (ignored, not everything done for them), complications coming from cutting corners, etc.
My mother's friend was pretty young when she got breast cancer. She could clearly feel a lump, but the doctor told her she is wasting time and money that could be used on people who "really have cancer".
Yeah, like you can list off clear advantages and disadvantages of both systems.
But so many Europeans just talk as if their system is clearly overwhelmingly superior while brushing away stories of its faults. Then turn around and take the rare American cases are proof that everyone is suffering under the "inferior" system.
Exactly! I can totally understand that I will never live in a 0% tax country, I don't even want that. But here in Europe we are taxed so much that it feels like I am not allowed to take responsibility for my own needs because "just hand in all your money and we totally promise we will get you shit".
Not everyone is like this, which again, I understand. But at the same time being taxed out of my arse to pay for services nowhere near as good as they are claimed to be is just laughable.
Like the other commenter saying junk food needs to be taxed so people can be healthy. That's just one step above banning things he considers unhealthy.
What I am more for is letting people make choices, but then making them have to deal with the consequences, instead of trying to save people from themselves with these soft bannings and such.
No fucking shit, but the taxes paid by the average joe don't come anywhere close to what he'll be paying if there's anything seriously wrong with him for any length of time.
The horror stories of being saddled with obnoxious medical bills in the US are quite rare. They do pay less in the end generally over there but nowhere near as much as people make it out to be. They pay those exorbitant taxes their whole lives. All the time they were paying into it when they were completely healthy was for the time they went in and got "free" healthcare.
I mean, he's right. Having the option of free healthcare is better than not having the option of free healthcare, especially when that free healthcare does get the job done in a timely fashion most of the time.
The most absurd thing in the US is going to the doctor just to get a prescription and having it cost you $100 just to breath the same air as them for 5 minutes. That straight up doesn't happen Europe, and you can usually get such an appointment on the same or next day, no problem.
Free Healthcare is a good thing. The reason the US won't do it is because Americans - even democrats - would freak the fuck out the second they got told stop being fat shits and stop eating heart attack and diabetes fuel.
They'd see the first signs of a sugar tax and go apeshit.
You think here people are healthier? There are taxes on junk food, and everything else (my 10-pound dog has a tax on her and it earns you nothing, I have to pay for medical care, vaccination, chip, everything).
But that doesn't change anything. People still eat like shit, it just costs more. People still don't go to regular checkups. They money procured through putting extra tax on crisps and soda are, in theory, for medical stuff, but you don't see any of that as it's lost in the budget.
Another thing is, companies make their products shittier to avoid tax. I don't drink energy drinks because I don't care for them, but since they introduced this tax energy drinks became lower in the very things that make them ENERGY drinks. They didn't become cheaper, no. Just shittier.
This did not stop ANYONE from eating certain things.
Our experiences are very different. Have you ever tried waiting a week with a tooth that hurt like fuck, even though you paid out of your high as fuck taxes for medical care?
My ex-coworker has to wait months with spinal issues that made him miss work because he couldn't get out of bed. My late grandpa was losing his sight and he would have had to wait months to deteriorate further if he didn't pay. A family member has hearth issues, her dad died of a heart attack. She could feel something was wrong. Her appointment for a full cardiology checkup? In a couple months.
I also work in a healthcare-adjacent field, both for private and government funded doctors. I do see the difference. Not saying all gov ones such, but if you need something elaborate, you WILL have to go to private because they government only provides the basics and that's it. They won't go fancy on your ass.
Unless they magically found more money, I guarantee that they'll eat less of it over time.
For most-of-most-people's lives, they will not need urgent prodcedures. People might bitch and moan about waiting times for certain things, but the reason those waiting times are there is because, shock, a free service is serving more people than a service that is often very expensive.
If you feel you can't wait for the free service and have the money to go private, great! Good for you! Do it! But there are vastly more people who either can wait, can't pay, or, more often than not, both.
I lived in the US for 4 years. In that brief time I spent more money on healthcare than I have in the 28 years I have been in the UK, despite that fact that I have spent 2 weeks in an NHS hospital hooked up to oxygen, and approximately 6 hours in American ones.
I'm sure you can prove the results of it. I can't see it, I don't see it on the shopping habits of anyone I know. I also don't see people's general health being better since the introduction of it.
Again, I am against a nanny state trying to punish people and basically soft ban things. Either leave us alone OR try proper banning and see the reactions.
There is proof of promiscuity being bad for you. I want to soft punish people for it. Same for using computers/pones too much. Coffee and tea? Makeup and plastic surgery! International travel can be dangerous too. Pets in general, especially dogs and among those certain breeds. Extreme sports.
Can we fuck with everyone please? Life is deadly after all.
First of all, "free" healthcare is NOT free. A huge chunk of every paycheck I get goes to the government as a tax. To me it absolutely fucking isn't free. Maybe it is free for the illegals and welfare queens, but I sure as hell pay for it, even though I am healthy at this point in my life.
Define urgent. A heart issue you know is there, but you don't know what it is exactly and how bad it is should be considered urgent. Things causing you debilitating pain, limiting your movement, stopping you from living a full life (working, doing shit in your free time, playing with your kids, driving, etc.) should be urgent.
And it isn't. Is that whining to you? Because have never had to experience it, your state deteriorating very fast while you still have weeks to your surgery or treatment.
Let me guess, it's not urgent if I'm not bleeding out right now.
I am not going to dig around in your pocket, but I sure as hell wouldn't expect US taxpayers to pay for my health issues. Just like I did not do it living in Sweden, when I needed dental care. It was a fuckton of money, but at the same time I wasn't a taxpaying Swedish citizen.
Like all commie ideas, "free" (taxpayer funded, government controlled) healthcare is only a positive if you are a zero-ambition pauper or an outright parasite who is looking to get as much as possible while contributing as little as possible.
I'm not a fan of medicare but its is a compromise I can live with. But like all compromises it is never enough for them. The commies keep try to expand it, and the allegedly small government republicans are for some reason out commieing the commie democrats on that front.
This is just absolute nonsense spouted by someone with zero experience of living in a country with universal healthcare.
A trip to the emergency room in the US can very easily run over $30,000. If that trip is caused by, say, a poisonous snake bite, you may be looking at over a $100,000. Long term hospital stays with needs for multiple operations and physical therapy can run over a million dollars.
You don't have to be 'zero-ambition pauper' or an 'outright parasite' to not be cool with the idea of never being able to buy a house because you accrued financially devastating medical debts in a car accident in your 20's.
If you want to talk about parasites, look at insurance companies. Literally no different to gamblers.
If we are going with "it works most of the time" that applies pretty well to the American system too. Those "broke and destitute" from medical bills people are rare cases and usually people who brought it on themselves (like those fat shits!) who I'd freak the fuck out if I had to waste tax money supporting. The rare upon rare case of freak accidents bankrupting are a problem, but all systems have cracks and usually these days are covered by GoFundMe esque charity. A tragedy, but utopia isn't available yet.
Plus for every one of those I could find you someone who wasn't cared for properly by the free healthcare providers, either they had to wait too long, they weren't treated carefully enough (ignored, not everything done for them), complications coming from cutting corners, etc.
My mother's friend was pretty young when she got breast cancer. She could clearly feel a lump, but the doctor told her she is wasting time and money that could be used on people who "really have cancer".
Yeah, like you can list off clear advantages and disadvantages of both systems.
But so many Europeans just talk as if their system is clearly overwhelmingly superior while brushing away stories of its faults. Then turn around and take the rare American cases are proof that everyone is suffering under the "inferior" system.
Exactly! I can totally understand that I will never live in a 0% tax country, I don't even want that. But here in Europe we are taxed so much that it feels like I am not allowed to take responsibility for my own needs because "just hand in all your money and we totally promise we will get you shit".
Not everyone is like this, which again, I understand. But at the same time being taxed out of my arse to pay for services nowhere near as good as they are claimed to be is just laughable.
Like the other commenter saying junk food needs to be taxed so people can be healthy. That's just one step above banning things he considers unhealthy.
What I am more for is letting people make choices, but then making them have to deal with the consequences, instead of trying to save people from themselves with these soft bannings and such.
It's not free you retard. They pay through their taxes. Jesus christ I never thought I'd have to explain that on this board of all places.
No fucking shit, but the taxes paid by the average joe don't come anywhere close to what he'll be paying if there's anything seriously wrong with him for any length of time.
The horror stories of being saddled with obnoxious medical bills in the US are quite rare. They do pay less in the end generally over there but nowhere near as much as people make it out to be. They pay those exorbitant taxes their whole lives. All the time they were paying into it when they were completely healthy was for the time they went in and got "free" healthcare.