I'm gonna give you the actual, real, firsthand history of this fucking boondoggle. Let's go.
First thing to know is that there are TWO companies called "Sig." First you have Sig Sauer, a conglomerate of a Swiss watchmaking company called SI Gruppen and Sauer and Sons firearms who've been making guns in Germany since the days of flintlocks. They make high end, expensive, steel framed guns with all the precision you would expect from a team made of of anal Swiss watchmakers and anal German gunmakers. See also: The P220, P226, P229, RH970.
The second company is called Sig ARMS. They're out of New Hampshire and started off in IIRC the early 1990s as a mere import office and assembly line for Sig Sauer to be able to assemble some of their guns in the US to get around import taxes. Its these assholes who are the problem.
In ~2008, Sig ARMS went to Sig Sauer and said "we want to make a gun all by ourselves and get some of the Glock plastic gun market." They pitched a pistol called the P250. It was light, cheap to make, and was designed with this "modular frame" system where the guts could be swapped around to change the size and even caliber of the pistol. Sig ARMS hyped this as a billion dollar innovation, Sig Sauer bought the idea, and Sig ARMS became a full on factory and made a million of the fucking things.
They were a disaster. The guts were stamped sheet metal with exposed coil springs and no tolerance for dirt, and the triggers were a 50 mile long double action only that make accuracy impossible. The frames weren't ballistic polymer like Glock frames but cheap shit you can literally crush with your hands if you try real hard. Fit and lockup were unbelievably sloppy. They charged early adopters 800 fucking dollars for these turds and they flopped hard. Sig ARMS invested all that money from daddy Sauer and the guns wound up gathering dust in warehouses. In ~2010 they pulled them off the market, only to reintroduce them shortly after as a "price point" gun. At 400 dollars with any two caliber change parts kits you wanted. And they STILL wouldn't sell because their reputation was that bad. Sig dropped them again.
But fast forward a few years and Sig Sauer was getting pissed. Sig ARMS wasted all that money and the guns were still rotting in warehouses. Daddy Sig told them "find a way to fix this bullshit and get us our money back!" and Sig ARMS had an idea. While the P250 had a list of complaints a mile long, the worst and loudest was about that awful trigger. So they developed a super cheap little striker fire conversion block. It actually fits into the channel where the dorky double action hammer used to pass through, and very cheaply converts a P250 into a striker fired gun with a much better feeling trigger.
I need to segue a bit here. Sig has for decades had a set naming system. A gun with a model name that comes out with a striker fired variant should have had an -S appended to the model name. So these striker converted guns should have been called the P250-S. But Sig ARMS knew the P250 name would get immediate rejection from the market, and decided to run a scam. They ground off the model marking on the P250 slides and renamed the gun to the P320. This is why P250 slides are square and P320 slides are beveled. They literally filed the numbers off.
Then they bribed all the big gun reviewers and sent them special, hand fitted examples to demo. This got them enough positive coverage to get into the Army's pistol trials, where Sig ARMS was an American company and could compete unlike German Sig Sauer. Except they gamed the system. The law requires the government to take the cheapest gun that meets the minimum requirements, and Sig ARMS offered the P320 up at fire sale prices, seeing a chance to get rid of all that backstock at once and get the contract locked in. It worked.
And once Uncle Sam was buying, suddenly everybody wanted one and now the fucking things are everywhere.
This is why P250 slides are square and P320 slides are beveled. They literally filed the numbers off.
Goddamn. And the Army just wasn't sophisticated enough to know all this and see the potential problems? Or is it that you give them enough of a discount and they stop caring about troop safety?
There's a lot of rumors spreading that General Austin Scott Miller rigged the XM17 trials in favor of Sig, because he immediately got a job at Sig as soon as he retired from the armed forces.
Give the right brass and politicians a good cock polishing and enough money and they'll be too "dumb" to notice an elephant crawling up their asshole. The worst part is, Sig Sauer is a godtier maker and those faggots at Sig ARMS have literally slathered mud all over their good name. Not that Sauer didn't do it partly to themselves, as from what I know it was their idea to grant Sig ARMS the use of the Sig Sauer branding for the M17 contract. They thought it would boost their prestige to take credit and it fucked them over instead.
Sig ARMS has only ever made a single good gun. The SP2022. And it was only good because Sig Sauer designed it for them top to bottom and just let them build it to earn some rep in Europe.
It is technically a "new" design in that there was no P250 micro to convert, but in the end its still just a shrunk down P320. Its utter garbage. If you want a gun in that size class that is good, the Glock 43X or even the Hellcat are better options. Hellcats have accuracy problems though. I'm no Glock fan, but the 43X really is a fantastic little piece IMO.
The Army bought the Air Force's survival rifle chambered in a cartridge designed for killing groundhogs and turned it into their front line combat rifle. It's called the M-16.
Well, here's the thing. There was a Springfield Armory (the actual armory) project in the 1950s (60s? Can't remember) called SALVO that used a triple barrel and duplex cartridge to push a 5.6mm round at ~5,000 FPS. And then someone in the Army conflated that round with 5.56 and sold the M-16 to the brass based on the old performance numbers.
The Army didn't even finish the XM17 trials to completion; they stopped halfway and simply declared Sig the winner. Glock was rightfully pissed, because everything looked like the G19X was going to win.
I interviewed to work at the Sig branch there, aside from the jew CEO, there entire management division is made of literal creeps. They are basically a DoD contractor masquerading as a gun maker.
Gun dealer here. We need to talk.
I'm gonna give you the actual, real, firsthand history of this fucking boondoggle. Let's go.
First thing to know is that there are TWO companies called "Sig." First you have Sig Sauer, a conglomerate of a Swiss watchmaking company called SI Gruppen and Sauer and Sons firearms who've been making guns in Germany since the days of flintlocks. They make high end, expensive, steel framed guns with all the precision you would expect from a team made of of anal Swiss watchmakers and anal German gunmakers. See also: The P220, P226, P229, RH970.
The second company is called Sig ARMS. They're out of New Hampshire and started off in IIRC the early 1990s as a mere import office and assembly line for Sig Sauer to be able to assemble some of their guns in the US to get around import taxes. Its these assholes who are the problem.
In ~2008, Sig ARMS went to Sig Sauer and said "we want to make a gun all by ourselves and get some of the Glock plastic gun market." They pitched a pistol called the P250. It was light, cheap to make, and was designed with this "modular frame" system where the guts could be swapped around to change the size and even caliber of the pistol. Sig ARMS hyped this as a billion dollar innovation, Sig Sauer bought the idea, and Sig ARMS became a full on factory and made a million of the fucking things.
They were a disaster. The guts were stamped sheet metal with exposed coil springs and no tolerance for dirt, and the triggers were a 50 mile long double action only that make accuracy impossible. The frames weren't ballistic polymer like Glock frames but cheap shit you can literally crush with your hands if you try real hard. Fit and lockup were unbelievably sloppy. They charged early adopters 800 fucking dollars for these turds and they flopped hard. Sig ARMS invested all that money from daddy Sauer and the guns wound up gathering dust in warehouses. In ~2010 they pulled them off the market, only to reintroduce them shortly after as a "price point" gun. At 400 dollars with any two caliber change parts kits you wanted. And they STILL wouldn't sell because their reputation was that bad. Sig dropped them again.
But fast forward a few years and Sig Sauer was getting pissed. Sig ARMS wasted all that money and the guns were still rotting in warehouses. Daddy Sig told them "find a way to fix this bullshit and get us our money back!" and Sig ARMS had an idea. While the P250 had a list of complaints a mile long, the worst and loudest was about that awful trigger. So they developed a super cheap little striker fire conversion block. It actually fits into the channel where the dorky double action hammer used to pass through, and very cheaply converts a P250 into a striker fired gun with a much better feeling trigger.
I need to segue a bit here. Sig has for decades had a set naming system. A gun with a model name that comes out with a striker fired variant should have had an -S appended to the model name. So these striker converted guns should have been called the P250-S. But Sig ARMS knew the P250 name would get immediate rejection from the market, and decided to run a scam. They ground off the model marking on the P250 slides and renamed the gun to the P320. This is why P250 slides are square and P320 slides are beveled. They literally filed the numbers off.
Then they bribed all the big gun reviewers and sent them special, hand fitted examples to demo. This got them enough positive coverage to get into the Army's pistol trials, where Sig ARMS was an American company and could compete unlike German Sig Sauer. Except they gamed the system. The law requires the government to take the cheapest gun that meets the minimum requirements, and Sig ARMS offered the P320 up at fire sale prices, seeing a chance to get rid of all that backstock at once and get the contract locked in. It worked.
And once Uncle Sam was buying, suddenly everybody wanted one and now the fucking things are everywhere.
Goddamn. And the Army just wasn't sophisticated enough to know all this and see the potential problems? Or is it that you give them enough of a discount and they stop caring about troop safety?
There's a lot of rumors spreading that General Austin Scott Miller rigged the XM17 trials in favor of Sig, because he immediately got a job at Sig as soon as he retired from the armed forces.
That's about as much of a confirmation as there could be.
Give the right brass and politicians a good cock polishing and enough money and they'll be too "dumb" to notice an elephant crawling up their asshole. The worst part is, Sig Sauer is a godtier maker and those faggots at Sig ARMS have literally slathered mud all over their good name. Not that Sauer didn't do it partly to themselves, as from what I know it was their idea to grant Sig ARMS the use of the Sig Sauer branding for the M17 contract. They thought it would boost their prestige to take credit and it fucked them over instead.
Sig ARMS has only ever made a single good gun. The SP2022. And it was only good because Sig Sauer designed it for them top to bottom and just let them build it to earn some rep in Europe.
What's your opinion on the P365? Was it designed by the European or American branch?
It is technically a "new" design in that there was no P250 micro to convert, but in the end its still just a shrunk down P320. Its utter garbage. If you want a gun in that size class that is good, the Glock 43X or even the Hellcat are better options. Hellcats have accuracy problems though. I'm no Glock fan, but the 43X really is a fantastic little piece IMO.
The Army bought the Air Force's survival rifle chambered in a cartridge designed for killing groundhogs and turned it into their front line combat rifle. It's called the M-16.
Oh yea. I forgot.
"ackshually, the 556 round is meant to wound the enemy, and force their combat medics to waste resources on them. that's why it's such a good round!"
Well, here's the thing. There was a Springfield Armory (the actual armory) project in the 1950s (60s? Can't remember) called SALVO that used a triple barrel and duplex cartridge to push a 5.6mm round at ~5,000 FPS. And then someone in the Army conflated that round with 5.56 and sold the M-16 to the brass based on the old performance numbers.
The Army didn't even finish the XM17 trials to completion; they stopped halfway and simply declared Sig the winner. Glock was rightfully pissed, because everything looked like the G19X was going to win.
I interviewed to work at the Sig branch there, aside from the jew CEO, there entire management division is made of literal creeps. They are basically a DoD contractor masquerading as a gun maker.
Sounds a lot like Colt before they got bought out by CZ.