It's not a baffling claim, it's a common protestant refrain against Catholics going back centuries. They view veneration of saints and the Virgin Mother as idolatry.
That's the claim anyway. In reality it's just another Reformation Wars post facto trope used to justify sectarianism. I don't know of any sect that actually believes this outside of Orthodox denominations(who themselves are just a different flavor of Catholic), but that's part and parcel of their own theological austerity.
In reality if you believe that there even can be such a thing as a saint, or that Mary was a real person(and if you don't you aren't a Christian anyway), then the logical progression is that they are closer to God than you are, and thus asking them for intercession and advocacy for you makes sense.
In reality if you believe that there even can be such a thing as a saint, or that Mary was a real person(and if you don't you aren't a Christian anyway), then the logical progression is that they are closer to God than you are, and thus asking them for intercession and advocacy for you makes sense.
The temple veil was torn. Jesus' death was the ultimate intercession for all. To treat His earthly mother as an extra step between us and God is superfluous at best, and downright demeaning to His sacrifice at worst.
Have you never had anyone else say they'll pray for you? Have you never heard of the concept of say, praying as a group? That whole church thing is kind of based around the concept after all.
If your take on this is accurate then why pray at all I suppose, if it's a foregone conclusion?
Or, hear me out, perhaps it isn't unreasonable to ask the honored dead in Heaven to look out for you too.
How in the world do you get "I don't need to talk to God because it's a foregone conclusion" from "I am capable of talking directly to God without needing any other intercession than what He has provided me." What kind of nonsense is that?
There is praying for others, and then there is praying to build your own relationship with Him. You can ask the dead for all the prayers you want. But if you're building statues to pray to them and dedicating your body, soul and deeds to Mary, I'm going to say that you're literally putting these things between you and God. Idolatry.
It's not a baffling claim, it's a common protestant refrain against Catholics going back centuries. They view veneration of saints and the Virgin Mother as idolatry.
That's the claim anyway. In reality it's just another Reformation Wars post facto trope used to justify sectarianism. I don't know of any sect that actually believes this outside of Orthodox denominations(who themselves are just a different flavor of Catholic), but that's part and parcel of their own theological austerity.
In reality if you believe that there even can be such a thing as a saint, or that Mary was a real person(and if you don't you aren't a Christian anyway), then the logical progression is that they are closer to God than you are, and thus asking them for intercession and advocacy for you makes sense.
The temple veil was torn. Jesus' death was the ultimate intercession for all. To treat His earthly mother as an extra step between us and God is superfluous at best, and downright demeaning to His sacrifice at worst.
Nobody said this.
Have you never had anyone else say they'll pray for you? Have you never heard of the concept of say, praying as a group? That whole church thing is kind of based around the concept after all.
If your take on this is accurate then why pray at all I suppose, if it's a foregone conclusion?
Or, hear me out, perhaps it isn't unreasonable to ask the honored dead in Heaven to look out for you too.
How in the world do you get "I don't need to talk to God because it's a foregone conclusion" from "I am capable of talking directly to God without needing any other intercession than what He has provided me." What kind of nonsense is that?
There is praying for others, and then there is praying to build your own relationship with Him. You can ask the dead for all the prayers you want. But if you're building statues to pray to them and dedicating your body, soul and deeds to Mary, I'm going to say that you're literally putting these things between you and God. Idolatry.
Is there? You just derided the concept.
Can the dead pray for the living or not? That's the simplest way I can put this without just outright calling you an idiot.