Himmel is barely a character. He is a walking "generic nice guy" whose power seems to be "knows how to recruit the best party." If he hadn't managed to convince the autistic savant whose power level is on par with literal god to join him, his quest would be one of many failures.
It feels like I watched a different series than the rest of these people because he barely has any character that we get to see because he is fucking dead and all the flashbacks are an elf who wasn't paying attention simping for him in retrospect.
I'm glad its helping people, it just don't make sense.
Not at all. Frieren comes to understand just how amazing he was after he's gone. He starts out as a generic hero type but through memories & new experiences Frieren slowly (very slowly!) figures out he was far more amazing than she'd imagined. Not by killing things, but by living every day and helping countless people "along the way".
So he does grow as a character, even though he's, you know, dead and stuff.
That's true, but that's also barely any different than 90% of fantasy heroes. That's going from nothing to generic still. Even when she literally goes back and time and hangs out with him directly, he is the least interesting character who is more the "rock who holds the idiots together."
That's not a bad thing, he does everything he needs to for the story and isn't a detriment. Just I couldn't imagine getting attached to him as a whole.
But if you break it down to that, "helping anyone you see," then it makes a lot more sense why this kid did what he did from him.
if he's "barely any differnt from 90% of fantasy heroes" then he wouldn't be topping the popularity charts of the fandom and more popular than Frieren herself. He's an inspirational character that still feels human and doesn't feel like an unrelatable gary stu with no flaws.
doesn't feel like an unrelatable gary stu with no flaws.
Lol, he is literally so perfect he convinces the unbeatable elf savant to join his party and melts her heart through sheer unstoppable good guy power. His entire personality is described as "always help, always nice."
I get it, you like the show. But let's be real. He is designed as an emotional anchor for her growth, not as a fully rounded character.
IMHO, you're trying to take it directly instead of one layer removed. "The Hero Himmel would have done so," isn't about the actual deeds of Himmel. It's about his legacy and the impact he had to Frieren.
That's kind of the whole point. She's so OP that she's not going to be awed by power anyway. Holding him as aspirational is matter of character and character alone. Makes sense if you consider a more collectivist mindset. You should do the best that you can because it can inspire others to do the same (including those who do have power).
It's putting a face on, "what would a reliably decent person do."
Well this is what happens when people form an emotional weld to characters beyond the usual "that entertained me, had fun." As a result, they intimate values that are not directly expressed in the show. It's a rare phenomenon.
To be clear, everything you said about the story is true. But sentimental attachments to characters with good values, even if they're vague, do help people's lives.
That I understand, its this specific example that throws me off because Himmel is barely a character. His values are beyond vague and generic, as is his personality and presence. I can't grasp getting emotionally invested in his character because there is nothing to grasp on to to begin with. Its just odd, but maybe its those Asian differences cropping up.
Though perhaps the anime did more with him than the manga did and I don't know of it because I'm not a filthy Seasonal FOTM watcher.
Now the kid who thought about Vegeta to survive the bees, that makes a lot more sense.
Now the kid who thought about Vegeta to survive the bees, that makes a lot more sense.
Lol
The conceit of appreciating someone you can no longer spend time with does a lot of heavy lifting in Frieren. Also it's clear that Frieren is the 100% more interesting part of the foil and Himmel is capturing some of her shine. Nobody would watch a Himmel solo series.
Some of Himmel's traits like his unshakable faith in Frieren despite appearances and the ease with which he abandons the hero lifestyle differentiate him ever so slightly, but YMMV.
The conceit of appreciating someone you can no longer spend time with does a lot of heavy lifting in Frieren.
Frieren is a show about that moment in your 20s when you realize that girl was flirting with you in high school, and your reaction to that revelation. Everything else is just details.
Which is why its pretty great and funny a lot of the time. Much more so than whatever "demons are Jews, its all political allegory" point OP has.
if he was just "a generic nice guy" with "barely any character", then he wouldn't be topping the popularity charts of Frieren, . Himmel is the most popular character in the fandom, even more popular than frieren herself.
Doubt. I can log into any social media and see pictures of Frieren and Fern all over, with Ubel not far behind. Like to a dangerous extent the obsession with Frieren herself has become.
I get it, this is your current obsession and anything short of fawning praise of it is heresy. But I can promise you I've consumed more of it than you have and enjoy it enough to discuss it beyond "demons are Jews, Ed Boy."
Himmel is barely a character. He is a walking "generic nice guy" whose power seems to be "knows how to recruit the best party." If he hadn't managed to convince the autistic savant whose power level is on par with literal god to join him, his quest would be one of many failures.
It feels like I watched a different series than the rest of these people because he barely has any character that we get to see because he is fucking dead and all the flashbacks are an elf who wasn't paying attention simping for him in retrospect.
I'm glad its helping people, it just don't make sense.
Not at all. Frieren comes to understand just how amazing he was after he's gone. He starts out as a generic hero type but through memories & new experiences Frieren slowly (very slowly!) figures out he was far more amazing than she'd imagined. Not by killing things, but by living every day and helping countless people "along the way".
So he does grow as a character, even though he's, you know, dead and stuff.
That's true, but that's also barely any different than 90% of fantasy heroes. That's going from nothing to generic still. Even when she literally goes back and time and hangs out with him directly, he is the least interesting character who is more the "rock who holds the idiots together."
That's not a bad thing, he does everything he needs to for the story and isn't a detriment. Just I couldn't imagine getting attached to him as a whole.
But if you break it down to that, "helping anyone you see," then it makes a lot more sense why this kid did what he did from him.
if he's "barely any differnt from 90% of fantasy heroes" then he wouldn't be topping the popularity charts of the fandom and more popular than Frieren herself. He's an inspirational character that still feels human and doesn't feel like an unrelatable gary stu with no flaws.
Lol, he is literally so perfect he convinces the unbeatable elf savant to join his party and melts her heart through sheer unstoppable good guy power. His entire personality is described as "always help, always nice."
I get it, you like the show. But let's be real. He is designed as an emotional anchor for her growth, not as a fully rounded character.
IMHO, you're trying to take it directly instead of one layer removed. "The Hero Himmel would have done so," isn't about the actual deeds of Himmel. It's about his legacy and the impact he had to Frieren.
That's kind of the whole point. She's so OP that she's not going to be awed by power anyway. Holding him as aspirational is matter of character and character alone. Makes sense if you consider a more collectivist mindset. You should do the best that you can because it can inspire others to do the same (including those who do have power).
It's putting a face on, "what would a reliably decent person do."
Well this is what happens when people form an emotional weld to characters beyond the usual "that entertained me, had fun." As a result, they intimate values that are not directly expressed in the show. It's a rare phenomenon.
To be clear, everything you said about the story is true. But sentimental attachments to characters with good values, even if they're vague, do help people's lives.
That I understand, its this specific example that throws me off because Himmel is barely a character. His values are beyond vague and generic, as is his personality and presence. I can't grasp getting emotionally invested in his character because there is nothing to grasp on to to begin with. Its just odd, but maybe its those Asian differences cropping up.
Though perhaps the anime did more with him than the manga did and I don't know of it because I'm not a filthy Seasonal FOTM watcher.
Now the kid who thought about Vegeta to survive the bees, that makes a lot more sense.
Lol
The conceit of appreciating someone you can no longer spend time with does a lot of heavy lifting in Frieren. Also it's clear that Frieren is the 100% more interesting part of the foil and Himmel is capturing some of her shine. Nobody would watch a Himmel solo series.
Some of Himmel's traits like his unshakable faith in Frieren despite appearances and the ease with which he abandons the hero lifestyle differentiate him ever so slightly, but YMMV.
Frieren is a show about that moment in your 20s when you realize that girl was flirting with you in high school, and your reaction to that revelation. Everything else is just details.
Which is why its pretty great and funny a lot of the time. Much more so than whatever "demons are Jews, its all political allegory" point OP has.
if he was just "a generic nice guy" with "barely any character", then he wouldn't be topping the popularity charts of Frieren, . Himmel is the most popular character in the fandom, even more popular than frieren herself.
Doubt. I can log into any social media and see pictures of Frieren and Fern all over, with Ubel not far behind. Like to a dangerous extent the obsession with Frieren herself has become.
I get it, this is your current obsession and anything short of fawning praise of it is heresy. But I can promise you I've consumed more of it than you have and enjoy it enough to discuss it beyond "demons are Jews, Ed Boy."