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70
Place your bets on who killed JFK
posted 1 year ago by MattTheBlack 1 year ago by MattTheBlack +70 / -0

Trump just released the files

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– Gizortnik 7 points 1 year ago +7 / -0

Lee Harvey Oswald... on behalf of the Soviet Union.

This is not a position I've heard a lot of, but I think it actually fits quite well.

First and foremost, the assassination was conducted by Oswald from the Book Depository. No, the magic bullet theory is a misinterpretation of the placement of the victims. Yes, those shots can be made by a marksman with the skill of Oswald. Yes, the rifle is accurate enough to do that. Yes, the ammunition found matches the rifle. Yes, the ammunition is deformed (it's not pristine). Yes the ammunition matches the damage to the car and the clothes of the victims. Yes, Oswald murdered a Dallas police officer who stopped him for a traffic infraction after he fled the shooting. No, JFK actually isn't quoted as having said that he would scatter the CIA to the wind. Yes, JFK actually didn't mind using the CIA for multiple operations, including against the government of Vietnam, and it was under him that many Special Forces activities began. Think about this for a second: when the government commits a serious crime, they don't turn the site of their crime into a tourist trap. If anything, they bulldoze the facility and quietly bury anyone from talking about it. The JFK assassination is talked about ad nauseum to this day, but nobody talks about the time we accidentally dropped a nuke on North Carolina, or the time when Puerto Rican Leftists tried machine gunning the entire US congress in a joint session, nor do they talk about the bio-weapon programs in Ukraine. Hell, you even forgot that a VBIED attack on a major Telecom Infrastructure building took place a few years ago. The point of a good conspiracy theory is not to stop people from talking, but to make people talk about the wrong thing as a distraction.

Don't talk about the fact that the Hawaiian government is a Democratic one-party state that may have intentionally allowed for the deaths of hundreds of people to create a development for the ultra rich, talk about how space lasers set the fire. Don't talk about how Bill "The Jew Hunter" DeBlasio created lockdowns so he could personally buy abandoned property in New York City, or how Andrew Cuomo killed 45,000 people via negligent homicide. Talk about Mayor Mike Adam's corruption issues. Talk about Cuomo "bibidy boobidy I toucha your face 'cause Imma Italian".

You're talking about Dallas, when you should be asking about the ATC recordings of LBJ staffers screaming at White House operators, or the fact that fist fights broke out between Kennedy staff and Johnson staff who stormed the place like it was a coup. You're ignoring the fact that LBJ himself explicitly said that one of the primary reasons for the Warren Commission wasn't to cover-up for the CIA, but to make sure that Russia wasn't blamed.

Oswald was a die hard Communist. He spent most of his life being an agitprop activist for Communism. Oswald had attempted to murder Edwin Walker, a right-wing reactionary, earlier the same year. He publicly lied on film multiple times about how he lead labor movements, union movements, and all sorts of other nonsense. He went to Mexico and defected to the Soviet Union in order to join the KGB.

Now... Russia claims that he was a low level enforcer in Moscow, that he got depressed, and left Moscow and the KGB.

I don't buy that story for a fucking second that someone just "leaves" the KGB. Especially when he went on to kill a rightst and then Kennedy (and injured the governor of Texas). Moreover, he couldn't be working for the CIA, because if he had the KGB would have killed him. CIA human intel in the USSR was horribly bad (likely because 30% of the State Department were informants).

People forget how crazy Communist hardliners were at this time. Mao supported a nuclear exchange. Castro supported a nuclear exchange, and for the same reason. Even if Cuba is destroyed, in the Soviets launch first, the US is destroyed and International Communism wins. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, when the Navy hit depth charges on the escorting soviet subs, the captain of the sub and the party liaison ordered the ship to fire a nuclear torpedo at the American ships. The Flotilla's Chief of Staff Vasily Arkhipov, argued (successfully) not to fire torpedoes until communication with Moscow had been established, which eventually lead to the ship voluntarily surfacing. Nikoli Kurschev (the Soviet Premier at the time), had actually been kept in the dark by the hardliners about the missile deployments, and was in the middle of an extremely dangerous political crisis where the hardliners were attempting to have him deposed in order to start a nuclear war. I have to emphasize this. A multiplicity of Communists in multiple governments were attempting to actively start a nuclear exchange with the US.

If the American public had found out that Kruschev had lost control of his military, and the hardliners had managed to assassinate JFK, there is no question that the only response would have been a nuclear exchange. There are no other options for that event. If the KGB kills the president, it's an act of war, and NORAD goes to DEFCON 1. Even if there was some kind of agreement to not launch, it would require Kruschev to purge the military as harshly as Stalin did, which wouldn't have been possible.

I think the KGB assassinated JFK, using Oswald as the assassin. The "I'm a patsy" thing is a complete lie. I think he did it on orders. I think LBJ basically coup'd the government to take power from Robert Kennedy, but I think the terrible truth is that the US government would have rather blamed anyone else on JFK's death than the Russians. If they had told the truth, a billion people would be dead. In the mean time, the US has to basically look the other way and point at anyone else, including the CIA, to make sure the average voter doesn't realize that a KGB agent killed the president.

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▲ 4 ▼
– TheModernDaVinci 4 points 1 year ago +4 / -0

Yes, those shots can be made by a marksman with the skill of Oswald.

I think my favorite one from that point was when some guys trying to prove it couldnt have been Oswald hired a retired sniper to make the shots to prove it couldnt have possibly been done by one guy...only for the sniper they hired to be both more accurate and made the shots faster.

As for the main thing, I do definitely agree with the overall theory (as I know we have had this conversation before), but I think that Oswald was rogue from the KGB when he did it, rather than necessarily on their orders. After all, they were fine with mayors, governors, and generals being killed. Killing the president kind of raises the stakes to a position all but the most extreme of KGB types would not be comfortable with.

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– freedomlogic 3 points 1 year ago +3 / -0

I think oswald was a patsy, thats why he was murdered before he could testify.

Being the son of a military general (or something), I dont see him really working for the enemy state.

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– Gizortnik 2 points 1 year ago +2 / -0

The KGB admitted that the recruited him. He defected at the Soviet embassy in Mexico. Everything we have about him publicly shows he was a die-hard communist.

If he didn't work for the KGB, he'd have to be a double agent, and frankly, the CIA got a lot of people killed trying to do that. It almost never worked. That's why American intel focused so much on Signal Intelligence.

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– Gizortnik 2 points 1 year ago +2 / -0

I'm willing to accept that there could be alternatives to this theory. Something like, "The CIA pretended to be the KGB to Oswald", or "Oswald decided to go rogue from the KGB", at least as I think they are more plausible alternatives, and it's bizarre that the fact that Oswald was a KGB agent, murdered a police officer, and tried killing a rightist is basically unknown (or all three are typically not known by one person).

It would be balls-to-the-walls crazy to do it, but then so was launching a nuclear torpedo. The Leftwing narrative has always been that right-wing reactionaries were paranoid and that the USSR was never involved in terrorism, assassination, regime change, cultural subversion, espionage, infiltration, and was terribly afraid of nuclear war. Instead it was involved in all of those things and only a few communists were ever opposed to nuclear war, even in East Germany. 99 Red Balloons was a western shit-lib position.

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– TheModernDaVinci 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

The "rogue from the KGB" for me isnt necessarily that he was actually rogue and the KGB didnt know what he was doing. It was that they had sent him to the US to kill "enemies of the revolution" promising him high status in the Party if he did it (as the KGB had done exactly that on other occasions for other killers). And he was originally going to kill something more sensible, as we do know his first target was going to be a General, but then he found out about Kennedy being in Dallas and decided that would be his golden ticket into the cushiest life the Party could provide, but didnt really tell the KGB about it.

Then he actually did it, and he told them, and the KGB response was "ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH?!!?" and then did everything they did to throw it under the bus. Not out of any non-radicalism, but because they thought they werent prepared for surviving the nuclear war that would come if it came out the KGB killed the American president. Because like you have been saying with how unhinged communist are, for as much as people dismiss it as a "meme" ideology, when you look at it there are a terrifying amount of high-level commies who were favorable toward Posadism.

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– Gizortnik 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

I'm not sure he would have had much time to know. Even if he was an active member of the KGB with a professional handler, he was arrested within a few hours. He attempted to die in a shootout with the police (which no one brings up regarding Jack Ruby killing him, when he tried to kill himself), that's why he was stuck in a jail.

As a result, if the Soviets sent him, and didn't want anything to do with it, they'd be in a panic to burn everything related to it, and shoot everyone involved in it.

Which is interesting because the records weren't destroyed, and the recruiters and handlers weren't executed.

And as for Posadism, yeah, it's pretty bad. I think Kruschev understood that he could never actually win a nuclear exchange, especially given the industrial difference. The entire Bomber Gap scandal demonstrated that the Americans could mistakenly build 2,000 nuclear bombers because they thought the Soviets had more, not realizing the Soviets only had 12. The nuclear sub program was basically the only hope that the Soviets would have to retaliate if the Americans launched first. They were never going to win, but too many Communists didn't get it. I have an atlas that actually contains a map of the Soviet plan to invade Europe in 1990 that was developed because they were concerned Reagan would attack.

There is no record, that I have seen, of an anti-war or anti-nuclear program in the Soviet sphere of influence. The ones in the west were all nearly explicitly funded by Russia.

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– ghostfox1_ 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

Anyone trying to claim that the shot was impossible is doing so out of malice or is so ignorant they should be deported to a third world country.

Especially given Oswald was a trained shooter. Would I expect a rando off the streets to do it? No. But anyone with any practice easily could.

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– RadiateTonight 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

First and foremost, the assassination was conducted by Oswald from the Book Depository. No, the magic bullet theory is a misinterpretation of the placement of the victims. Yes, those shots can be made by a marksman with the skill of Oswald. Yes, the rifle is accurate enough to do that.

Now you can try it for yourself with this old game. https://www.myabandonware.com/game/jfk-reloaded-c6p

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