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153
When they tell everyone their explicit goals and our only response is to vote harder (media.kotakuinaction2.win)
posted 1 year ago by SparkMandrill83 1 year ago by SparkMandrill83 +153 / -0
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– Gizortnik 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

I'm talking about being a suspected gang member on flimsy reasons. There are plenty of people who've been arrested but completely innocent. Otherwise they wouldn't regularly release people from prison.

And I'm telling you that you can do this even in the US. If they have the probable cause, they can arrest you and interrogate you, and hold you for a while before the prosecutor drops the case and lets you out. It's an uncooth tactic that could breed public resentment, but it's absolutely within the system and the law.

They arrest you on a minor offense, ask the judge to set a high or no bail because given some context you are probably a gang member. Now you will wait months in jail for a minor offense. In the US, they would typically just turn you into a confidential informant. In Ecuador, they are probably just going to interrogate you to rat on others. If either police figure out you don't have anything, they'll let you go, but the message to the gang will be clear: the heat is on.

This is fully excluding an insurrection or terrorist frame. If you do that, now you can expect a lot looser restrictions on what the state is gonna do and how long it's gonna hold you.

That may very well be true for MS-13 affiliated tattoos but I seriously doubt hat MS-13 had a monopoly on all tattoos in El Salvador.

It's not any tattoos, it's specific tattoos. And yeah, it's a monopoly on those tattoos, because they kill you if you aren't one of them. They may also kill the artist if they find out who put it on you. Most likely, you don't get it until your in prison already by an MS-13 prison artist who does it officially. And again, you got that prison sentence from the murder and rape.

This happens in the US too, by the way. Bloods, Crips, Gangster Disciples, Aryan Nation, 1% Hell's Angels, Mongols, whatever. You fly the wrong flag, you'll get killed for it. And yes, MS-13.

Guilty until proven innocent is not working within the system. The police and judicial system has to follow rules as not to infringe on the rights of innocent people. Even criminals are supposed to have rights. These rules were not followed as it was necessary because the cartel problem had grown so much that Bekele had to use a sledgehammer to destroy them.

None of it was guilty until proven innocent. It was a dragnet. This is actually how "tough on crime" law enforcement is actually supposed to work. It looks harsh from a bleeding heart Democrat stance, but it's actually fully allowed within the system, because the makers of the system fundamentally understood that threats to the system had to be acted upon quickly and aggressively.

I'm sure it's unpleasant, but the reason he's popular is because a terror campaign was destroyed by these genuinely legal means.

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– horstshort 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

None of it was guilty until proven innocent.

It literally is. If you get imprisoned for weeks, months or even years without any proof, you are guilty until proven innocent. Sure you can argue that those imprisoned people were never actually convicted and thus it wasn't guilty until proven innocent but that doesn't change the fact that they were imprisoned without proof and despite being innocent.

But I suppose you can say that it all was within the system as the system is corrupt and hypocritical anyway. Rules are regularly bend, changed or simply ignored without consequences. Even the constitution isn't safe from that.

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– Gizortnik 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

That's my point. You might consider it guilty until proven innocent, but it is how the American system works.

Innocent people go to jail because they face charges, but those charges are never carried out, not perused, or are dismissed. That is the system that you, very likely, already live in. So did your parents and grand-parents. You may not like it, but that's a reality of even Liberal states. That's how inside the system it is.

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– horstshort 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

I'm aware that there is a very big difference between what the systems pretends to be and what it actually is. I consider working within the system as adhering to the illusion and working outside the system as not to.

If you work outside of the system you basically take complete control of the system which is what Bukele did. He didn't respect regulatory bodies that would've liked to sabotage his efforts. And he could only do that because the people overwhelmingly support him.

So if you don't have the overwhelming support of the people nor control the regulatory bodies, good luck with getting anything done. Just as they find loopholes to get what they want they'll find loopholes to stop you from doing the same.

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– Gizortnik 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

At a certain point, that's just self-delusion. You have to deal with things as they are. Not how they present themselves to be.

I agree that it would be crazy to trust the system as it is to fix itself with the people who are currently in it. It would be like releasing Hunter Biden's laptop to CNN, because journalists speak truth to power. Obviously that's retarded, because CNN is not operating the way their propaganda says they should. This begs the question, why the hell would we expect them to abide by propaganda standards. The standards you are calling "the system", aren't the system's standards, it's no one's standards. It's not even their standards because it's literally just a sales pitch they don't intend to abide by in the first place.

Is it the system's hypocrisy when we ask it to fulfil enemy propaganda? No. The system is the system, regardless of propaganda. It is simply a machine. If you understand the machine, then you use the machine. That's what they're doing, frankly they are the ones operating well outside of the system. They are the ones explicitly breaking the law, procedure, and prudence because their revolution isn't going fast enough to their liking.

We don't even need a revolution, we really just need a revolt from their control over the system, and then for us to simply work the system as intended.

So if you don't have the overwhelming support of the people nor control the regulatory bodies, good luck with getting anything done.

That's what Bukele did! He didn't have a 90% approval when he went to war against MS-13, but when he did he used every weapon at his disposal within the state's power. That's how he got to 90%. He earned people's trust, and they gave him further political capital to keep fighting on other fronts. Those bureaucrats really were working with the Cartels... which made them part of the enemy racket, which made them all legitimate targets.

Neither Millei nor Bukele have ever had complete control over the system. What they had instead was momentum. That was more than enough to break through the first layer of defense, and victory gives momentum to victory. The enemy knows this so well that they manufacture fake momentum to legitimate their own pre-planned actions.

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