How could you possible know that? The Roman Empire at the peak of its power was pagan. It was already on the decline when it embraced Christianity, yes, but one it did it collapsed entirely.
The Roman character at its peak was clearly superior to the barbarian character. The barbarians sacked Rome after centuries of degenerate decisions, kind of like beating up a fat pensioner. Were the barbarians capable of using the Roman system to uplift themselves to the heights of Rome? Obviously not. There were no signs of that. They needed something else to change them.
As you already admit, you can't blame Christianity for the collapse of the Roman Empire. It's more that Christianity kept the Byzantines alive long past their expiration date.
The "barbarian" hordes brought the Roman Empire to its knees and the Roman Empire was significantly more powerful than any of the Islamic Caliphates ever were.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion.
Paganism is mediocrity. It has never succeeded in creating a First World nation. Every pagan people has had to be dragged into enlightenment and industry, like India or the Aztecs. There's a lot more to be said about this, but for now the results speak for themselves.
What's your point? That Christianity in its 2000 year history never dealt with those parasitic elements but instead actually helped them to succeed?
My point was to defend the conception of America as one of the world's greatest achievements, since you're apparently edgy enough to think it was a net negative. But to discuss the Jews and the Europeans, the Jewish diaspora was a unique event in history and it's not clear whether pagan Europe would have treated them harsher than Christian Europe, which held them responsible for killing Christ and expelled them, infamously, over 100 times.
It's more that Christianity kept the Byzantines alive long past their expiration date.
Right. It was definitely Christianity and not its Roman foundation.
It has never succeeded in creating a First World nation.
You're just gonna pretend the Classical World didn't exist?
like India or the Aztecs
Okay, then lets look at the Christian countries in South America and Africa which are very religious. Oh... oh no...
My point was to defend the conception of America as one of the world's greatest achievements, since you're apparently edgy enough to think it was a net negative.
I know Americans tend to be very full of themselves but this is incredibly arrogant even for an American. America was not only used to kill off the old European world but since the end of WW2 is the primary exporter of the very degeneracy you loath.
You can blame the Jews all you want but your people went willingly along with it. If you refuse to take responsibility for being dumb enough to be subverted you'll be just subverted again in the future. But don't worry I hold the European peoples as well as the rest of the world to the same standard. Not just Americans. In the end Europeans are responsible for the downfall of Europe.
What good is a religion that doesn't protect you from being subverted? What good is a religion that sees itself as more important than the people? What good is a religion which institutions have always been deeply corrupt?
You can pretend all you want that Christianity is the solution to the worlds problems but past and present history proves you wrong. Even if we pretend Christianity isn't just a tool for controlling the population but to protect it, it failed spectacularly.
Blindly following authority will always end in your downfall. Without fail. And that's exactly what Christianity teaches. Trust God. Trust the Church. Trust the Pope. Trust your priest. Trust the Bible. But in the end all of it is man made. And man is fallible.
which held them responsible for killing Christ and expelled them, infamously, over 100 times.
If the Jews didn't kill Christ, Christianity wouldn't exist. So you should thank them for it. And no Christianity didn't expel Jews. Individual countries did. And in the end they all invited them back in again.
Also Jesus was a Jew, if he ever existed. He was a Jewish Messiah born in a Jewish country, raised as a Jew, lived as a Jew, who tried to "save" the chosen people of the Jewish God. Jews. The first Christians were Jews, the first Pope was a Jew. Christianity is based on Judaism just as Islam.
Focus on what is actually important. Your culture, your blood, your ancestors, your history. Not a stupid fucking religion that puts itself above all of it.
And no, I'm not an atheist. I'm also not a pagan. Spirituality has its place and is important but organised religions that inevitably become political are a cancer.
Right. It was definitely Christianity and not its Roman foundation.
Sure, and logically the Roman foundation that just failed wouldn't be the primary sustaining factor would it?
You're just gonna pretend the Classical World didn't exist?
I cited the First World, enlightenment, and industry specifically, which are all distinct from the Classical World. Linnaeus, Kepler, Newton, and all the other pioneers of modern math and science were Christian because they needed to start from the premise of an ordered universe authored by a single designer to select their paths of inquiry. Also, the notions of natural rights and freedom as moral come straight from Christianity.
I will freely admit the Classical World has titanic achievements under its record, as do China and Japan. Interestingly enough, those cultures tended to exist in a simultaneously religious and irreligious state as mentioned previously.
Okay, then lets look at the Christian countries in South America and Africa which are very religious. Oh... oh no...
Not amazing, but they're much better off than they used to be.
I know Americans tend to be very full of themselves but this is incredibly arrogant even for an American. [...] But don't worry I hold the European peoples as well as the rest of the world to the same standard. Not just Americans. In the end Europeans are responsible for the downfall of Europe.
I feel like you answered yourself on that one.
If the Jews didn't kill Christ, Christianity wouldn't exist. So you should thank them for it. And no Christianity didn't expel Jews. Individual countries did. And in the end they all invited them back in again.
Also Jesus was a Jew, if he ever existed. He was a Jewish Messiah born in a Jewish country, raised as a Jew, lived as a Jew, who tried to "save" the chosen people of the Jewish God. Jews. The first Christians were Jews, the first Pope was a Jew. Christianity is based on Judaism just as Islam.
Yes, all of that is true (except for thanking the Jews, as it was God's plan, not theirs). Christianity is the true form of Judaism, the way that God reaches out to humanity.
Blindly following authority will always end in your downfall. Without fail. And that's exactly what Christianity teaches. Trust God. Trust the Church. Trust the Pope. Trust your priest. Trust the Bible. But in the end all of it is man made. And man is fallible.
Focus on what is actually important. Your culture, your blood, your ancestors, your history. Not a stupid fucking religion that puts itself above all of it.
Ultimately the reason the Bible is above all else is that it's the word of God. How do I know? It has made scores of historical prophecies that have been fulfilled and it's the most accurate and profound account of human nature that's ever been published. And yet at the same time it's a compilation of books written over thousands of years by dozens of different people that all make a coherent whole. Clearly only God can do that.
The fact that Christianity fostered almost every fundamental advancement of the First World is just a point of utility that supports that claim. In the end, most of the world is shared between the three Abrahamic religions. The story of the world will continue to be a battle within Christianity and among its false divergences.
Sure, and logically the Roman foundation that just failed wouldn't be the primary sustaining factor would it?
But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
Linnaeus, Kepler, Newton, and all the other pioneers of modern math and science were Christian
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
Not amazing, but they're much better off than they used to be.
Because some cultures were mostly wiped out not because they embraced Christianity. If go back to the 1800s and compare it with today... the situation has grown significantly worse. Christianity did nothing to stop that from happening.
(except for thanking the Jews, as it was God's plan, not theirs)
Why would you dislike and punish a people for following God's plan? That makes no sense.
Ultimately the reason the Bible is above all else is that it's the word of God.
Old Testament or New Testament? Which version of the Bible? Which interpretation? There's quite a few. Jehovas Witnesses have very different beliefs to Catholics. Amish and Mennonites are also very different.
And yet at the same time it's a compilation of books written over thousands of years by dozens of different people that all make a coherent whole. Clearly only God can do that.
You know who else can do that? An organised group that follows a plan for several centuries. It's not exactly rocket science. Also you have no actual proof as to when and where the Bible was written. We simply don't know. Israel has focused quite extensive on archaeology and unfortunately most of what they found did not align with the stories in the bible. We also have extensive records of ancient Egypt but strangely enough they never mention an entire people being enslaved and then disappearing into a region which was still part of the territory of ancient Egypt. Also wandering around the desert with tens or hundreds of thousands of people for decades is not possible.
profound account of human nature that's ever been published
Seriously? Describing basic human nature is anything but profound.
In the end, most of the world is shared between the three Abrahamic religions. The story of the world will continue to be a battle within Christianity and among its false divergences.
And there we have it. You admit that Christianity, Islam and Judaism is the same shit just packaged differently. But you think your version of Christianity is the only true version because your version of a particular book says so. While Islam has their own book as well Judaism. You base your entire life on a religion and forget your own people while fighting a perpetual and pointless war. And that's precisely the reason why Christianity will lead to doom. A self fulfilling prophecy.
But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
I read this (and the rest of your post) less as a genuine objection to Christianity and more as pointing at an arbitrarily long line of flaws. Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
Popery marred medieval Christianity, but the beginning and end of it was prophesied in the Bible down to the year 1798, when the French revolutionaries arrested the Pope and broke the back of Rome. There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream. It is beyond obvious that only God can write those.
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
The point about why Christians created science and freedom of thought, not Muslims (or anyone else), went straight over your head. Beliefs have consequences.
The Roman character at its peak was clearly superior to the barbarian character. The barbarians sacked Rome after centuries of degenerate decisions, kind of like beating up a fat pensioner. Were the barbarians capable of using the Roman system to uplift themselves to the heights of Rome? Obviously not. There were no signs of that. They needed something else to change them.
As you already admit, you can't blame Christianity for the collapse of the Roman Empire. It's more that Christianity kept the Byzantines alive long past their expiration date.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion.
Paganism is mediocrity. It has never succeeded in creating a First World nation. Every pagan people has had to be dragged into enlightenment and industry, like India or the Aztecs. There's a lot more to be said about this, but for now the results speak for themselves.
My point was to defend the conception of America as one of the world's greatest achievements, since you're apparently edgy enough to think it was a net negative. But to discuss the Jews and the Europeans, the Jewish diaspora was a unique event in history and it's not clear whether pagan Europe would have treated them harsher than Christian Europe, which held them responsible for killing Christ and expelled them, infamously, over 100 times.
Right. It was definitely Christianity and not its Roman foundation.
You're just gonna pretend the Classical World didn't exist?
Okay, then lets look at the Christian countries in South America and Africa which are very religious. Oh... oh no...
I know Americans tend to be very full of themselves but this is incredibly arrogant even for an American. America was not only used to kill off the old European world but since the end of WW2 is the primary exporter of the very degeneracy you loath.
You can blame the Jews all you want but your people went willingly along with it. If you refuse to take responsibility for being dumb enough to be subverted you'll be just subverted again in the future. But don't worry I hold the European peoples as well as the rest of the world to the same standard. Not just Americans. In the end Europeans are responsible for the downfall of Europe.
What good is a religion that doesn't protect you from being subverted? What good is a religion that sees itself as more important than the people? What good is a religion which institutions have always been deeply corrupt?
You can pretend all you want that Christianity is the solution to the worlds problems but past and present history proves you wrong. Even if we pretend Christianity isn't just a tool for controlling the population but to protect it, it failed spectacularly.
Blindly following authority will always end in your downfall. Without fail. And that's exactly what Christianity teaches. Trust God. Trust the Church. Trust the Pope. Trust your priest. Trust the Bible. But in the end all of it is man made. And man is fallible.
If the Jews didn't kill Christ, Christianity wouldn't exist. So you should thank them for it. And no Christianity didn't expel Jews. Individual countries did. And in the end they all invited them back in again.
Also Jesus was a Jew, if he ever existed. He was a Jewish Messiah born in a Jewish country, raised as a Jew, lived as a Jew, who tried to "save" the chosen people of the Jewish God. Jews. The first Christians were Jews, the first Pope was a Jew. Christianity is based on Judaism just as Islam.
Focus on what is actually important. Your culture, your blood, your ancestors, your history. Not a stupid fucking religion that puts itself above all of it.
And no, I'm not an atheist. I'm also not a pagan. Spirituality has its place and is important but organised religions that inevitably become political are a cancer.
Sure, and logically the Roman foundation that just failed wouldn't be the primary sustaining factor would it?
I cited the First World, enlightenment, and industry specifically, which are all distinct from the Classical World. Linnaeus, Kepler, Newton, and all the other pioneers of modern math and science were Christian because they needed to start from the premise of an ordered universe authored by a single designer to select their paths of inquiry. Also, the notions of natural rights and freedom as moral come straight from Christianity.
I will freely admit the Classical World has titanic achievements under its record, as do China and Japan. Interestingly enough, those cultures tended to exist in a simultaneously religious and irreligious state as mentioned previously.
Not amazing, but they're much better off than they used to be.
I feel like you answered yourself on that one.
Yes, all of that is true (except for thanking the Jews, as it was God's plan, not theirs). Christianity is the true form of Judaism, the way that God reaches out to humanity.
Ultimately the reason the Bible is above all else is that it's the word of God. How do I know? It has made scores of historical prophecies that have been fulfilled and it's the most accurate and profound account of human nature that's ever been published. And yet at the same time it's a compilation of books written over thousands of years by dozens of different people that all make a coherent whole. Clearly only God can do that.
The fact that Christianity fostered almost every fundamental advancement of the First World is just a point of utility that supports that claim. In the end, most of the world is shared between the three Abrahamic religions. The story of the world will continue to be a battle within Christianity and among its false divergences.
But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
Because some cultures were mostly wiped out not because they embraced Christianity. If go back to the 1800s and compare it with today... the situation has grown significantly worse. Christianity did nothing to stop that from happening.
Why would you dislike and punish a people for following God's plan? That makes no sense.
Old Testament or New Testament? Which version of the Bible? Which interpretation? There's quite a few. Jehovas Witnesses have very different beliefs to Catholics. Amish and Mennonites are also very different.
You know who else can do that? An organised group that follows a plan for several centuries. It's not exactly rocket science. Also you have no actual proof as to when and where the Bible was written. We simply don't know. Israel has focused quite extensive on archaeology and unfortunately most of what they found did not align with the stories in the bible. We also have extensive records of ancient Egypt but strangely enough they never mention an entire people being enslaved and then disappearing into a region which was still part of the territory of ancient Egypt. Also wandering around the desert with tens or hundreds of thousands of people for decades is not possible.
Seriously? Describing basic human nature is anything but profound.
And there we have it. You admit that Christianity, Islam and Judaism is the same shit just packaged differently. But you think your version of Christianity is the only true version because your version of a particular book says so. While Islam has their own book as well Judaism. You base your entire life on a religion and forget your own people while fighting a perpetual and pointless war. And that's precisely the reason why Christianity will lead to doom. A self fulfilling prophecy.
I read this (and the rest of your post) less as a genuine objection to Christianity and more as pointing at an arbitrarily long line of flaws. Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
Popery marred medieval Christianity, but the beginning and end of it was prophesied in the Bible down to the year 1798, when the French revolutionaries arrested the Pope and broke the back of Rome. There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream. It is beyond obvious that only God can write those.
The point about why Christians created science and freedom of thought, not Muslims (or anyone else), went straight over your head. Beliefs have consequences.