But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
I read this (and the rest of your post) less as a genuine objection to Christianity and more as pointing at an arbitrarily long line of flaws. Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
Popery marred medieval Christianity, but the beginning and end of it was prophesied in the Bible down to the year 1798, when the French revolutionaries arrested the Pope and broke the back of Rome. There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream. It is beyond obvious that only God can write those.
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
The point about why Christians created science and freedom of thought, not Muslims (or anyone else), went straight over your head. Beliefs have consequences.
Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
No. But you believe that Christianity is the answer to that problem. Which it obviously isn't.
There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
History repeats itself. Besides it is quite easy to make prophecy's come true. Look at Israel. They also adore their prophecies and are actively working on making them come true.
Christians created science and freedom of thought
First of all you can't "create" science or freedom of thought. Second, most of these concepts you attribute to Christianity have been established long before Christianity came to be. Third, forcibly converting people is very contrary to the concept of freedom of thought. Fourth, freedom of speech is the exact opposite of what the Church has practiced.
If you think that God created Christianity then you have to explain why Christianity was so inherently flawed that it changed so drastically over the centuries. And why Christianity has "borrowed" so many pagan traditions. If you "explain" it away with "God has a plan!" then you just open yourself up for subversion.
Now I'm aware that you can't logically explain faith. That's why its called faith. And usually I don't care about an individuals faith. I actually respect the Amish and Mennonites and in some regards look up to them. They are deeply religious and I know that their religious beliefs are what gives them their strength but they don't want to impose their faith on me. They don't get involved in politics. They don't go around screaming "Christ is king!" like that idiot Fuentes who also wants total Christian supremacy.
I also have acquaintances who happen to be Jehovas Witnesses. I think their beliefs are ridiculous but as they don't want to (forcibly) impose their beliefs on me it doesn't matter. We treat each other with respect and that's that.
Beliefs have consequences.
Yes. That's what I've been saying all along. But you've been attributing every positive achievement of European culture to an imported religion while attributing every negative consequence of Christianity to Europeans not being christian enough.
If we take the beliefs of the Amish and slap them onto a people that is culturally totally different from the actual Amish you will not end up with Amish. Religion is not the foundation of a people. You can remove a religion from a people and they'll still be fundamentally the same people. That's why Europe has been so influential over its history despite major changes in religious beliefs.
No. But you believe that Christianity is the answer to that problem. Which it obviously isn't.
The Christian utopia is in heaven, not on earth.
History repeats itself. Besides it is quite easy to make prophecy's come true. Look at Israel. They also adore their prophecies and are actively working on making them come true.
You have no idea. Nebuchadnezzar's dream predicted the succession of Babylon to Medo-Persia to Greece to Rome to the balkanized present and the absolute latest date for the book is still in the BCs. There are more than 125 fulfilled prophecies of Jesus' first coming.
First of all you can't "create" science or freedom of thought.
Oh yes you can create science. The Popperian philosophy of inquiry is a modern invention.
"You can't create freedom of thought" is such a ridiculous reply I have to assume you missed the point.
If we take the beliefs of the Amish and slap them onto a people that is culturally totally different from the actual Amish you will not end up with Amish. Religion is not the foundation of a people.
Both correct and false. Genetics is by and large responsible for the traits of a given people, but genetics is changeable over thousands of years of breeding selection. What controls the breeding selection of humanity? You guessed it: religion.
For example, the dysgenic effects of a given religion are much easier to appreciate: an extremely high percentage of Pakistani Muslims are products of cousin marriages.
So Christianity is an apocalypse cult. Don't bother fixing the world but embrace and cheer on the end of the world because then we'll all be happy in heaven.
You have no idea. Nebuchadnezzar's dream predicted the succession of Babylon to Medo-Persia to Greece to Rome to the balkanized present and the absolute latest date for the book is still in the BCs.
“After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."
So his extremely vague prediction that new empires will rise and fall and that diversity will destroy the fabrics of a homogeneous group? That's your prophecy? Basic pattern recognition?
I can you give a prophecy too. It's gonna rain sometime in the future.
What controls the breeding selection of humanity? You guessed it: religion.
No. Family relationships, societal structures and population size do. Nobility didn't fuck only nobility because the Bible said so. Incest wasn't a problem in small rural communities because of religion but because they were too few people to choose from. That shit is a concept as old as humanity itself. Hell, it is as old as life.
For example, the dysgenic effects of a given religion are much easier to appreciate: an extremely high percentage of Pakistani Muslims are products of cousin marriages.
Cousin marriages are not an Islamic concept. It's cultural. Not religious. That's why the incest problem is worst in rural communities. Pakistanis did it before Islam and will do it after Islam. Incest was a big problem in every part of the world at some point. Even in the US. It's a family thing. Look at the most famous example in Europe. Habsburg dynasty. Christianity didn't stop that practice. The Habsburg or rather the nobility class stopped it themselves because they became physically and mentally disabled bridge trolls.
So Christianity is an apocalypse cult. Don't bother fixing the world but embrace and cheer on the end of the world because then we'll all be happy in heaven.
Sure, go ahead and take the crudest interpretation of that statement.
So his extremely vague prediction that new empires will rise and fall and that diversity will destroy the fabrics of a homogeneous group? That's your prophecy? Basic pattern recognition?
This prophecy is actually given in parallel form with animal metaphors in Daniel 7, and there's a lot of triangulating details between them:
the head of gold/the lion with eagle's wings: this is explicitly Babylon. The eagle's wings plucked from the lion foretells the humbling of Nebuchadnezzar when he acknowledged God's authority.
the chest and arms of silver/the bear with one shoulder higher than the other: Medo-Persia was a larger empire than Babylon, but never equaled the civilizational achievements like the Hanging Gardens. It was unique in that it was an alliance of two peoples, but the Persians were always stronger than the Medes.
The belly and thighs of bronze/the leopard with four wings and four heads: Alexander the Great conquered the known world faster than anyone before him. His most prominent generals were four men: Ptolemy, Antigonus, Cassander, and Seleucus, who famously split the empire after his death. Interestingly, Greek armor was primarily bronze (cuirass, shields, greaves etc) and their weapons were a mixture of bronze and iron.
the legs of iron/the unnamed beast with iron teeth/the beast with seven heads and ten horns: Rome was the most dominant and efficient empire perhaps of all time, pioneering modern standards of regimentation. Famously, almost every weapon and piece of armor in the Roman arsenal was constructed with iron. The unnamed beast also appears several times in Revelation, such as Revelation 13, because it also prophesies the rise of the Roman Catholic Church from Rome. Rome was founded on seven hills, and ten European barbarian tribes sacked it. Three of those tribes were subsequently exterminated for heresy at the behest of the pope.
the feet of iron and clay: after Rome, the civilized world would no longer be united, never fully adhering to each other just as iron can't bond to clay. This state has persisted despite several credible attempts such as the Muslim caliphate, Napoleon's campaigns, and Hitler's Third Reich. This will last until the end of time.
the stone that destroys the statue and fills the whole Earth: a divine act, "not cut with human hands," that sweeps aside all human structure. This is the Second Coming of Christ.
So it's a bit more involved than "empires will rise and fall." I'll leave it at that for now.
I read this (and the rest of your post) less as a genuine objection to Christianity and more as pointing at an arbitrarily long line of flaws. Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
Popery marred medieval Christianity, but the beginning and end of it was prophesied in the Bible down to the year 1798, when the French revolutionaries arrested the Pope and broke the back of Rome. There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream. It is beyond obvious that only God can write those.
The point about why Christians created science and freedom of thought, not Muslims (or anyone else), went straight over your head. Beliefs have consequences.
No. But you believe that Christianity is the answer to that problem. Which it obviously isn't.
History repeats itself. Besides it is quite easy to make prophecy's come true. Look at Israel. They also adore their prophecies and are actively working on making them come true.
First of all you can't "create" science or freedom of thought. Second, most of these concepts you attribute to Christianity have been established long before Christianity came to be. Third, forcibly converting people is very contrary to the concept of freedom of thought. Fourth, freedom of speech is the exact opposite of what the Church has practiced.
If you think that God created Christianity then you have to explain why Christianity was so inherently flawed that it changed so drastically over the centuries. And why Christianity has "borrowed" so many pagan traditions. If you "explain" it away with "God has a plan!" then you just open yourself up for subversion.
Now I'm aware that you can't logically explain faith. That's why its called faith. And usually I don't care about an individuals faith. I actually respect the Amish and Mennonites and in some regards look up to them. They are deeply religious and I know that their religious beliefs are what gives them their strength but they don't want to impose their faith on me. They don't get involved in politics. They don't go around screaming "Christ is king!" like that idiot Fuentes who also wants total Christian supremacy.
I also have acquaintances who happen to be Jehovas Witnesses. I think their beliefs are ridiculous but as they don't want to (forcibly) impose their beliefs on me it doesn't matter. We treat each other with respect and that's that.
Yes. That's what I've been saying all along. But you've been attributing every positive achievement of European culture to an imported religion while attributing every negative consequence of Christianity to Europeans not being christian enough.
If we take the beliefs of the Amish and slap them onto a people that is culturally totally different from the actual Amish you will not end up with Amish. Religion is not the foundation of a people. You can remove a religion from a people and they'll still be fundamentally the same people. That's why Europe has been so influential over its history despite major changes in religious beliefs.
The Christian utopia is in heaven, not on earth.
You have no idea. Nebuchadnezzar's dream predicted the succession of Babylon to Medo-Persia to Greece to Rome to the balkanized present and the absolute latest date for the book is still in the BCs. There are more than 125 fulfilled prophecies of Jesus' first coming.
Oh yes you can create science. The Popperian philosophy of inquiry is a modern invention.
"You can't create freedom of thought" is such a ridiculous reply I have to assume you missed the point.
Both correct and false. Genetics is by and large responsible for the traits of a given people, but genetics is changeable over thousands of years of breeding selection. What controls the breeding selection of humanity? You guessed it: religion.
For example, the dysgenic effects of a given religion are much easier to appreciate: an extremely high percentage of Pakistani Muslims are products of cousin marriages.
So Christianity is an apocalypse cult. Don't bother fixing the world but embrace and cheer on the end of the world because then we'll all be happy in heaven.
So his extremely vague prediction that new empires will rise and fall and that diversity will destroy the fabrics of a homogeneous group? That's your prophecy? Basic pattern recognition?
I can you give a prophecy too. It's gonna rain sometime in the future.
No. Family relationships, societal structures and population size do. Nobility didn't fuck only nobility because the Bible said so. Incest wasn't a problem in small rural communities because of religion but because they were too few people to choose from. That shit is a concept as old as humanity itself. Hell, it is as old as life.
Cousin marriages are not an Islamic concept. It's cultural. Not religious. That's why the incest problem is worst in rural communities. Pakistanis did it before Islam and will do it after Islam. Incest was a big problem in every part of the world at some point. Even in the US. It's a family thing. Look at the most famous example in Europe. Habsburg dynasty. Christianity didn't stop that practice. The Habsburg or rather the nobility class stopped it themselves because they became physically and mentally disabled bridge trolls.
Sure, go ahead and take the crudest interpretation of that statement.
This prophecy is actually given in parallel form with animal metaphors in Daniel 7, and there's a lot of triangulating details between them:
So it's a bit more involved than "empires will rise and fall." I'll leave it at that for now.