Right. It was definitely Christianity and not its Roman foundation.
Sure, and logically the Roman foundation that just failed wouldn't be the primary sustaining factor would it?
You're just gonna pretend the Classical World didn't exist?
I cited the First World, enlightenment, and industry specifically, which are all distinct from the Classical World. Linnaeus, Kepler, Newton, and all the other pioneers of modern math and science were Christian because they needed to start from the premise of an ordered universe authored by a single designer to select their paths of inquiry. Also, the notions of natural rights and freedom as moral come straight from Christianity.
I will freely admit the Classical World has titanic achievements under its record, as do China and Japan. Interestingly enough, those cultures tended to exist in a simultaneously religious and irreligious state as mentioned previously.
Okay, then lets look at the Christian countries in South America and Africa which are very religious. Oh... oh no...
Not amazing, but they're much better off than they used to be.
I know Americans tend to be very full of themselves but this is incredibly arrogant even for an American. [...] But don't worry I hold the European peoples as well as the rest of the world to the same standard. Not just Americans. In the end Europeans are responsible for the downfall of Europe.
I feel like you answered yourself on that one.
If the Jews didn't kill Christ, Christianity wouldn't exist. So you should thank them for it. And no Christianity didn't expel Jews. Individual countries did. And in the end they all invited them back in again.
Also Jesus was a Jew, if he ever existed. He was a Jewish Messiah born in a Jewish country, raised as a Jew, lived as a Jew, who tried to "save" the chosen people of the Jewish God. Jews. The first Christians were Jews, the first Pope was a Jew. Christianity is based on Judaism just as Islam.
Yes, all of that is true (except for thanking the Jews, as it was God's plan, not theirs). Christianity is the true form of Judaism, the way that God reaches out to humanity.
Blindly following authority will always end in your downfall. Without fail. And that's exactly what Christianity teaches. Trust God. Trust the Church. Trust the Pope. Trust your priest. Trust the Bible. But in the end all of it is man made. And man is fallible.
Focus on what is actually important. Your culture, your blood, your ancestors, your history. Not a stupid fucking religion that puts itself above all of it.
Ultimately the reason the Bible is above all else is that it's the word of God. How do I know? It has made scores of historical prophecies that have been fulfilled and it's the most accurate and profound account of human nature that's ever been published. And yet at the same time it's a compilation of books written over thousands of years by dozens of different people that all make a coherent whole. Clearly only God can do that.
The fact that Christianity fostered almost every fundamental advancement of the First World is just a point of utility that supports that claim. In the end, most of the world is shared between the three Abrahamic religions. The story of the world will continue to be a battle within Christianity and among its false divergences.
Sure, and logically the Roman foundation that just failed wouldn't be the primary sustaining factor would it?
But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
Linnaeus, Kepler, Newton, and all the other pioneers of modern math and science were Christian
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
Not amazing, but they're much better off than they used to be.
Because some cultures were mostly wiped out not because they embraced Christianity. If go back to the 1800s and compare it with today... the situation has grown significantly worse. Christianity did nothing to stop that from happening.
(except for thanking the Jews, as it was God's plan, not theirs)
Why would you dislike and punish a people for following God's plan? That makes no sense.
Ultimately the reason the Bible is above all else is that it's the word of God.
Old Testament or New Testament? Which version of the Bible? Which interpretation? There's quite a few. Jehovas Witnesses have very different beliefs to Catholics. Amish and Mennonites are also very different.
And yet at the same time it's a compilation of books written over thousands of years by dozens of different people that all make a coherent whole. Clearly only God can do that.
You know who else can do that? An organised group that follows a plan for several centuries. It's not exactly rocket science. Also you have no actual proof as to when and where the Bible was written. We simply don't know. Israel has focused quite extensive on archaeology and unfortunately most of what they found did not align with the stories in the bible. We also have extensive records of ancient Egypt but strangely enough they never mention an entire people being enslaved and then disappearing into a region which was still part of the territory of ancient Egypt. Also wandering around the desert with tens or hundreds of thousands of people for decades is not possible.
profound account of human nature that's ever been published
Seriously? Describing basic human nature is anything but profound.
In the end, most of the world is shared between the three Abrahamic religions. The story of the world will continue to be a battle within Christianity and among its false divergences.
And there we have it. You admit that Christianity, Islam and Judaism is the same shit just packaged differently. But you think your version of Christianity is the only true version because your version of a particular book says so. While Islam has their own book as well Judaism. You base your entire life on a religion and forget your own people while fighting a perpetual and pointless war. And that's precisely the reason why Christianity will lead to doom. A self fulfilling prophecy.
But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
I read this (and the rest of your post) less as a genuine objection to Christianity and more as pointing at an arbitrarily long line of flaws. Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
Popery marred medieval Christianity, but the beginning and end of it was prophesied in the Bible down to the year 1798, when the French revolutionaries arrested the Pope and broke the back of Rome. There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream. It is beyond obvious that only God can write those.
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
The point about why Christians created science and freedom of thought, not Muslims (or anyone else), went straight over your head. Beliefs have consequences.
Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
No. But you believe that Christianity is the answer to that problem. Which it obviously isn't.
There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
History repeats itself. Besides it is quite easy to make prophecy's come true. Look at Israel. They also adore their prophecies and are actively working on making them come true.
Christians created science and freedom of thought
First of all you can't "create" science or freedom of thought. Second, most of these concepts you attribute to Christianity have been established long before Christianity came to be. Third, forcibly converting people is very contrary to the concept of freedom of thought. Fourth, freedom of speech is the exact opposite of what the Church has practiced.
If you think that God created Christianity then you have to explain why Christianity was so inherently flawed that it changed so drastically over the centuries. And why Christianity has "borrowed" so many pagan traditions. If you "explain" it away with "God has a plan!" then you just open yourself up for subversion.
Now I'm aware that you can't logically explain faith. That's why its called faith. And usually I don't care about an individuals faith. I actually respect the Amish and Mennonites and in some regards look up to them. They are deeply religious and I know that their religious beliefs are what gives them their strength but they don't want to impose their faith on me. They don't get involved in politics. They don't go around screaming "Christ is king!" like that idiot Fuentes who also wants total Christian supremacy.
I also have acquaintances who happen to be Jehovas Witnesses. I think their beliefs are ridiculous but as they don't want to (forcibly) impose their beliefs on me it doesn't matter. We treat each other with respect and that's that.
Beliefs have consequences.
Yes. That's what I've been saying all along. But you've been attributing every positive achievement of European culture to an imported religion while attributing every negative consequence of Christianity to Europeans not being christian enough.
If we take the beliefs of the Amish and slap them onto a people that is culturally totally different from the actual Amish you will not end up with Amish. Religion is not the foundation of a people. You can remove a religion from a people and they'll still be fundamentally the same people. That's why Europe has been so influential over its history despite major changes in religious beliefs.
No. But you believe that Christianity is the answer to that problem. Which it obviously isn't.
The Christian utopia is in heaven, not on earth.
History repeats itself. Besides it is quite easy to make prophecy's come true. Look at Israel. They also adore their prophecies and are actively working on making them come true.
You have no idea. Nebuchadnezzar's dream predicted the succession of Babylon to Medo-Persia to Greece to Rome to the balkanized present and the absolute latest date for the book is still in the BCs. There are more than 125 fulfilled prophecies of Jesus' first coming.
First of all you can't "create" science or freedom of thought.
Oh yes you can create science. The Popperian philosophy of inquiry is a modern invention.
"You can't create freedom of thought" is such a ridiculous reply I have to assume you missed the point.
If we take the beliefs of the Amish and slap them onto a people that is culturally totally different from the actual Amish you will not end up with Amish. Religion is not the foundation of a people.
Both correct and false. Genetics is by and large responsible for the traits of a given people, but genetics is changeable over thousands of years of breeding selection. What controls the breeding selection of humanity? You guessed it: religion.
For example, the dysgenic effects of a given religion are much easier to appreciate: an extremely high percentage of Pakistani Muslims are products of cousin marriages.
Sure, and logically the Roman foundation that just failed wouldn't be the primary sustaining factor would it?
I cited the First World, enlightenment, and industry specifically, which are all distinct from the Classical World. Linnaeus, Kepler, Newton, and all the other pioneers of modern math and science were Christian because they needed to start from the premise of an ordered universe authored by a single designer to select their paths of inquiry. Also, the notions of natural rights and freedom as moral come straight from Christianity.
I will freely admit the Classical World has titanic achievements under its record, as do China and Japan. Interestingly enough, those cultures tended to exist in a simultaneously religious and irreligious state as mentioned previously.
Not amazing, but they're much better off than they used to be.
I feel like you answered yourself on that one.
Yes, all of that is true (except for thanking the Jews, as it was God's plan, not theirs). Christianity is the true form of Judaism, the way that God reaches out to humanity.
Ultimately the reason the Bible is above all else is that it's the word of God. How do I know? It has made scores of historical prophecies that have been fulfilled and it's the most accurate and profound account of human nature that's ever been published. And yet at the same time it's a compilation of books written over thousands of years by dozens of different people that all make a coherent whole. Clearly only God can do that.
The fact that Christianity fostered almost every fundamental advancement of the First World is just a point of utility that supports that claim. In the end, most of the world is shared between the three Abrahamic religions. The story of the world will continue to be a battle within Christianity and among its false divergences.
But Christianity which dealt the killing blow would be? If Christianity was such a great ideology you'd think that it would've united Europe under the same banner but strangely it didn't. Europe continued warring with itself. Christians killed more Christians than any other group.
That's what happens if you force everyone to convert with the sword. If you murder every non-Christian of course you'll end up with an absolute majority of Christians. That's exactly what happened in the Middle East with Islam.
Because some cultures were mostly wiped out not because they embraced Christianity. If go back to the 1800s and compare it with today... the situation has grown significantly worse. Christianity did nothing to stop that from happening.
Why would you dislike and punish a people for following God's plan? That makes no sense.
Old Testament or New Testament? Which version of the Bible? Which interpretation? There's quite a few. Jehovas Witnesses have very different beliefs to Catholics. Amish and Mennonites are also very different.
You know who else can do that? An organised group that follows a plan for several centuries. It's not exactly rocket science. Also you have no actual proof as to when and where the Bible was written. We simply don't know. Israel has focused quite extensive on archaeology and unfortunately most of what they found did not align with the stories in the bible. We also have extensive records of ancient Egypt but strangely enough they never mention an entire people being enslaved and then disappearing into a region which was still part of the territory of ancient Egypt. Also wandering around the desert with tens or hundreds of thousands of people for decades is not possible.
Seriously? Describing basic human nature is anything but profound.
And there we have it. You admit that Christianity, Islam and Judaism is the same shit just packaged differently. But you think your version of Christianity is the only true version because your version of a particular book says so. While Islam has their own book as well Judaism. You base your entire life on a religion and forget your own people while fighting a perpetual and pointless war. And that's precisely the reason why Christianity will lead to doom. A self fulfilling prophecy.
I read this (and the rest of your post) less as a genuine objection to Christianity and more as pointing at an arbitrarily long line of flaws. Is there a single human group in history that has not killed more of themselves than outsiders at some point?
Popery marred medieval Christianity, but the beginning and end of it was prophesied in the Bible down to the year 1798, when the French revolutionaries arrested the Pope and broke the back of Rome. There are many more prophecies with historical fulfillments spanning up to thousands of years, such as Nebuchadnezzar's dream. It is beyond obvious that only God can write those.
The point about why Christians created science and freedom of thought, not Muslims (or anyone else), went straight over your head. Beliefs have consequences.
No. But you believe that Christianity is the answer to that problem. Which it obviously isn't.
History repeats itself. Besides it is quite easy to make prophecy's come true. Look at Israel. They also adore their prophecies and are actively working on making them come true.
First of all you can't "create" science or freedom of thought. Second, most of these concepts you attribute to Christianity have been established long before Christianity came to be. Third, forcibly converting people is very contrary to the concept of freedom of thought. Fourth, freedom of speech is the exact opposite of what the Church has practiced.
If you think that God created Christianity then you have to explain why Christianity was so inherently flawed that it changed so drastically over the centuries. And why Christianity has "borrowed" so many pagan traditions. If you "explain" it away with "God has a plan!" then you just open yourself up for subversion.
Now I'm aware that you can't logically explain faith. That's why its called faith. And usually I don't care about an individuals faith. I actually respect the Amish and Mennonites and in some regards look up to them. They are deeply religious and I know that their religious beliefs are what gives them their strength but they don't want to impose their faith on me. They don't get involved in politics. They don't go around screaming "Christ is king!" like that idiot Fuentes who also wants total Christian supremacy.
I also have acquaintances who happen to be Jehovas Witnesses. I think their beliefs are ridiculous but as they don't want to (forcibly) impose their beliefs on me it doesn't matter. We treat each other with respect and that's that.
Yes. That's what I've been saying all along. But you've been attributing every positive achievement of European culture to an imported religion while attributing every negative consequence of Christianity to Europeans not being christian enough.
If we take the beliefs of the Amish and slap them onto a people that is culturally totally different from the actual Amish you will not end up with Amish. Religion is not the foundation of a people. You can remove a religion from a people and they'll still be fundamentally the same people. That's why Europe has been so influential over its history despite major changes in religious beliefs.
The Christian utopia is in heaven, not on earth.
You have no idea. Nebuchadnezzar's dream predicted the succession of Babylon to Medo-Persia to Greece to Rome to the balkanized present and the absolute latest date for the book is still in the BCs. There are more than 125 fulfilled prophecies of Jesus' first coming.
Oh yes you can create science. The Popperian philosophy of inquiry is a modern invention.
"You can't create freedom of thought" is such a ridiculous reply I have to assume you missed the point.
Both correct and false. Genetics is by and large responsible for the traits of a given people, but genetics is changeable over thousands of years of breeding selection. What controls the breeding selection of humanity? You guessed it: religion.
For example, the dysgenic effects of a given religion are much easier to appreciate: an extremely high percentage of Pakistani Muslims are products of cousin marriages.