Yes, far-left. Like Russell Brand, except that Brand supported civil liberties during Covid and Chomsky was even more anti-civil liberties than the regime.
It should though, because he used to be of the Glenn Greenwald variety. He supported civil liberties for everyone, including Holocaust deniers and Nazis - regardless of the merits of his political views, which are not great.
I mean that was one of the few things I agreed with leftists about back in the day. “I may hate what you say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”.
Just curious, as I hadn't really thought about it, but do you think Brand can still be called far left? I doubt he's recovered from all hist socialist nonsense, and he's definitely not right wing, but I don't think he's far left. For one thing, as you said, he believes in liberty. I'd say he's more left libertarian now, if I had to label him.
Which, to be fair, is a pretty small group of people. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if over time he did become more right wing. He's a genuine leftist, but you can't exist that way for long as a dissident leftist. I'd imagine he'll shift rightward, similar to someone like Sargon. It's hard being a dissident leftist, because the left is so purist and loves their purges. You can only hang on so long.
Just curious, as I hadn't really thought about it, but do you think Brand can still be called far left? I doubt he's recovered from all hist socialist nonsense, and he's definitely not right wing, but I don't think he's far left. For one thing, as you said, he believes in liberty. I'd say he's more left libertarian now, if I had to label him.
I mean, this is exactly why I don't like left-right labels, but in my understanding, far-left is not necessarily inconsistent with being pro-liberty. I think people like Max Blumenthal of the Gray Zone would describe themselves as far-left, but they were still very strong in opposing a lot of the Covid nonsense.
In any case, Brand is definitely to the left of a lot of the neoliberal people we don't like. But I was rather impressed by how people here and elsewhere on the right, despite long bragging that they don't care if someone on the left has his free speech taken away, backed Brand to the hilt - despite all that. The left pretends to be better than it is, the right pretends to be worse.
Which, to be fair, is a pretty small group of people. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if over time he did become more right wing. He's a genuine leftist, but you can't exist that way for long as a dissident leftist
For now, there seems to be room for him. And I think it's good. You need sensible leftists out there, if they all become right-wing, leftists who have doubts about all the nonsense will have a choice between moving all the way over to the right (which is often a bridge too far), or putting up with all the nonsense.
It's hard being a dissident leftist, because the left is so purist and loves their purges. You can only hang on so long.
Only if you want to be 'accepted' into the left, which most of these people don't seem to care much about.
There's a purity spiral on the right as well, though it's maybe 1/1000 as intense as on the left. I feel very comfortable voicing exactly what I think here, because even if people grumble a bit, they're almost never witch-hunters who dismiss everything you say because they once disliked something you said.
But I was rather impressed by how people here and elsewhere on the right, despite long bragging that they don't care if someone on the left has his free speech taken away, backed Brand to the hilt - despite all that. The left pretends to be better than it is, the right pretends to be worse.
Agreed, but with a caveat. I see some on the right - not all, but enough to be noteworthy - giving a lot more credence to the accusations than I think is correct, just because he's a lefty, and just because he was promiscuous back in the day. Just because he was a degenerate doesn't mean the rape accusations are even partially accurate. Could they be? Sure. But some on the right are just assuming some level of guilt (not fully believing the accusations, but allowing that it's exaggeration instead of fabrication) because they don't like some aspects of Brand's character. They'll still defend Brand, but assume he at least did something wrong. I'm sticking with innocent until proven guilty, especially considering this is obviously a highly orchestrated and predictable hit job. Again, might he have done something wrong? Sure, but I'm not going to assume that, or couch my arguments in that.
When shit like this happens, it doesn't really matter the guilt or innocent, because the accusations are so pointed. Without full information, we simply can't know the truth, and if Brand did something wrong, it would be pure coincidence, given the charged nature of the accusations.
For now, there seems to be room for him. And I think it's good. You need sensible leftists out there...
Agreed, but the problem is two-fold. The left is basically fully captured, so "sensible leftists" often end up having much more in common with the right, and naturally shift that way. The other issue is the purity spiral and purging I mentioned. Sensible leftists aren't welcome on the left. So I do think it's natural that sensible or dissident leftists end up sliding rightward.
Chomsky is a leftist right? He does make good points at times
Yes, far-left. Like Russell Brand, except that Brand supported civil liberties during Covid and Chomsky was even more anti-civil liberties than the regime.
If your belief in freedom ends with "until" or "unless" you don't believe in it.
Brain-dead Europeans often make this argument: yeah, we have freedom of speech, but it's not UNLIMITED.
Well then so has North Korea.
Well you know (((Chompsky))) means there's one topic that's off limits.
Wow. I guess that doesn’t surprise me about Chomsky
It should though, because he used to be of the Glenn Greenwald variety. He supported civil liberties for everyone, including Holocaust deniers and Nazis - regardless of the merits of his political views, which are not great.
I mean that was one of the few things I agreed with leftists about back in the day. “I may hate what you say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”.
Just curious, as I hadn't really thought about it, but do you think Brand can still be called far left? I doubt he's recovered from all hist socialist nonsense, and he's definitely not right wing, but I don't think he's far left. For one thing, as you said, he believes in liberty. I'd say he's more left libertarian now, if I had to label him.
Which, to be fair, is a pretty small group of people. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if over time he did become more right wing. He's a genuine leftist, but you can't exist that way for long as a dissident leftist. I'd imagine he'll shift rightward, similar to someone like Sargon. It's hard being a dissident leftist, because the left is so purist and loves their purges. You can only hang on so long.
I mean, this is exactly why I don't like left-right labels, but in my understanding, far-left is not necessarily inconsistent with being pro-liberty. I think people like Max Blumenthal of the Gray Zone would describe themselves as far-left, but they were still very strong in opposing a lot of the Covid nonsense.
In any case, Brand is definitely to the left of a lot of the neoliberal people we don't like. But I was rather impressed by how people here and elsewhere on the right, despite long bragging that they don't care if someone on the left has his free speech taken away, backed Brand to the hilt - despite all that. The left pretends to be better than it is, the right pretends to be worse.
For now, there seems to be room for him. And I think it's good. You need sensible leftists out there, if they all become right-wing, leftists who have doubts about all the nonsense will have a choice between moving all the way over to the right (which is often a bridge too far), or putting up with all the nonsense.
Only if you want to be 'accepted' into the left, which most of these people don't seem to care much about.
There's a purity spiral on the right as well, though it's maybe 1/1000 as intense as on the left. I feel very comfortable voicing exactly what I think here, because even if people grumble a bit, they're almost never witch-hunters who dismiss everything you say because they once disliked something you said.
Good point and, yeah, the labels often suck.
Agreed, but with a caveat. I see some on the right - not all, but enough to be noteworthy - giving a lot more credence to the accusations than I think is correct, just because he's a lefty, and just because he was promiscuous back in the day. Just because he was a degenerate doesn't mean the rape accusations are even partially accurate. Could they be? Sure. But some on the right are just assuming some level of guilt (not fully believing the accusations, but allowing that it's exaggeration instead of fabrication) because they don't like some aspects of Brand's character. They'll still defend Brand, but assume he at least did something wrong. I'm sticking with innocent until proven guilty, especially considering this is obviously a highly orchestrated and predictable hit job. Again, might he have done something wrong? Sure, but I'm not going to assume that, or couch my arguments in that.
When shit like this happens, it doesn't really matter the guilt or innocent, because the accusations are so pointed. Without full information, we simply can't know the truth, and if Brand did something wrong, it would be pure coincidence, given the charged nature of the accusations.
Agreed, but the problem is two-fold. The left is basically fully captured, so "sensible leftists" often end up having much more in common with the right, and naturally shift that way. The other issue is the purity spiral and purging I mentioned. Sensible leftists aren't welcome on the left. So I do think it's natural that sensible or dissident leftists end up sliding rightward.