I wonder if this were actually play out in a fair court wouldn't it be theft? At least in the US if I were to legally purchase the old game and create a patch for it to remove the DRM that's something I'm allowed to do. At which point I'd have a totally legal copyrighted work I could distribute. The crime isn't until someone uses it to patch an illegally owned copy of the game. So now Rockstar is stealing someone else's copyrighted work and distributing it?
I'm not a lawyer and have no idea if this applies to all civil torts, but there's something called a "clean hands doctrine" where you cannot sue for damages related to something you illegitimately gained in the first place. Brave Search gave me this:
The doctrine protects the integrity of a court and is used in U.S. patent law to deny equitable or legal relief to a patentee that has engaged in improper conduct, such as using the patent to extend monopoly power beyond the claims of the patent.
That said, I'm also fairly certain that removing DRM, legally or not, on a game you own does not make the resulting patched copy your own copyrighted work.
My argument is the patch itself is copyrighted work. It's essentially a mod and in many cases its legal to make and distribute patches. If I make a Skyrim mod with unique IP inside it, I can freely distribute it as I see fit as long as I don't include any Bethesda property as part of the distribution. Bethesda cannot confiscate and distribute it as a DLC though.
Yeah I'm grasping at straws for curiosity sake, I know there's no chance in Yell a judge would even attempt to look at it fairly.
Interesting video, but I don’t think it’s directly relavent to the situation. A more comparable example would be if Nintendo stole the code from the multiplayer BotW mod and incorporated it in an update/sequel. Similar to when they sold us pirated ROMs of their old games instead of just dumping them themselves lmao:
Assuming that you could find a court that would enforce the current laws on the books, sure. But then again, DMCA says that DVD manufacturers have to either allow most legal owners to legally make a copy of any disc they own or ensure that replacements can be had. They chose option 3: no copies, copying software is illegal, and no free replacements.
At least in the US if I were to legally purchase the old game and create a patch for it to remove the DRM that's something I'm allowed to do.
Removing the DRM from your own game is illegal in the U.S, even in your own home for your own use. The act of creating a patch to remove DRM that "effectively controls access" is illegal.
Only exceptions are handed out by the Library of Congress and they're only allowing game hacks for the sole purpose of preserving them in museums once the authorization servers are gone (not before) or if you are security researcher doing it for your job (not to play the game).
Removing the DRM from your own game is illegal in the U.S, even in your own home for your own use. The act of creating a patch to remove DRM that "effectively controls access" is illegal.
According to what law is doing this illegal? It's not my job to prove your argument for you, so please try to be as unambiguous as possible.
Only exceptions are handed out by the Library of Congress and they're only allowing game hacks for the sole purpose of preserving them in museums once the authorization servers are gone (not before) or if you are security researcher doing it for your job (not to play the game).
I very much doubt that, but I won't call you a liar just yet.
In that case DRM is considered an "Access Control" under 1201.
The way he worded it still sounds wrong somehow, so I wouldn't blame anyone for being skeptical. I have no idea how tested in court this is. The whole DMCA should be unconstitutional anyway.
I have a feeling that the courts are corrupt enough to uphold it, regardless of how stupid it seems. Thanks for the direct link. Very helpful to have the exact source on hand, so I'm definitely going to bookmark that one for the future.
The DMCA my dude. Seriously what rock did you crawl out from under? I'd accuse you or being Rip van Winkel but he was only asleep for 20 years and DMCA is 25 years old.
I wonder if this were actually play out in a fair court wouldn't it be theft? At least in the US if I were to legally purchase the old game and create a patch for it to remove the DRM that's something I'm allowed to do. At which point I'd have a totally legal copyrighted work I could distribute. The crime isn't until someone uses it to patch an illegally owned copy of the game. So now Rockstar is stealing someone else's copyrighted work and distributing it?
Fair court is an oxymoron. The judiciary are tyrants who rule on pure whim.
I'm not a lawyer and have no idea if this applies to all civil torts, but there's something called a "clean hands doctrine" where you cannot sue for damages related to something you illegitimately gained in the first place. Brave Search gave me this:
That said, I'm also fairly certain that removing DRM, legally or not, on a game you own does not make the resulting patched copy your own copyrighted work.
My argument is the patch itself is copyrighted work. It's essentially a mod and in many cases its legal to make and distribute patches. If I make a Skyrim mod with unique IP inside it, I can freely distribute it as I see fit as long as I don't include any Bethesda property as part of the distribution. Bethesda cannot confiscate and distribute it as a DLC though.
Yeah I'm grasping at straws for curiosity sake, I know there's no chance in Yell a judge would even attempt to look at it fairly.
Oh that's an interesting argument. Yeah, the likelihood that a judge would ever consider it correlates with how many dollars have greased his palms.
Mods arent legal in the first place.
https://youtu.be/mo_AmQgSSqY?si=AdJR-q8zuHTxc-Va
Moon channel has a great breakdown on the legal caselaw of mods in and around the gaming space.
Interesting video, but I don’t think it’s directly relavent to the situation. A more comparable example would be if Nintendo stole the code from the multiplayer BotW mod and incorporated it in an update/sequel. Similar to when they sold us pirated ROMs of their old games instead of just dumping them themselves lmao:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zR1uEwjx7VI&feature=emb_title
Yeah, Rockstar could argue that them using stolen code from crackers falls under fair use/public domain because the crackers are a rogue entity.
Assuming that you could find a court that would enforce the current laws on the books, sure. But then again, DMCA says that DVD manufacturers have to either allow most legal owners to legally make a copy of any disc they own or ensure that replacements can be had. They chose option 3: no copies, copying software is illegal, and no free replacements.
Removing the DRM from your own game is illegal in the U.S, even in your own home for your own use. The act of creating a patch to remove DRM that "effectively controls access" is illegal.
Only exceptions are handed out by the Library of Congress and they're only allowing game hacks for the sole purpose of preserving them in museums once the authorization servers are gone (not before) or if you are security researcher doing it for your job (not to play the game).
According to what law is doing this illegal? It's not my job to prove your argument for you, so please try to be as unambiguous as possible.
I very much doubt that, but I won't call you a liar just yet.
I assume he's talking about the DMCA and this.
In that case DRM is considered an "Access Control" under 1201.
The way he worded it still sounds wrong somehow, so I wouldn't blame anyone for being skeptical. I have no idea how tested in court this is. The whole DMCA should be unconstitutional anyway.
I should have said removing DRM from "a game you own" instead of "your own game", but context should have cleared that up.
I have a feeling that the courts are corrupt enough to uphold it, regardless of how stupid it seems. Thanks for the direct link. Very helpful to have the exact source on hand, so I'm definitely going to bookmark that one for the future.
The DMCA my dude. Seriously what rock did you crawl out from under? I'd accuse you or being Rip van Winkel but he was only asleep for 20 years and DMCA is 25 years old.