Donbass & Crimea are within Ukraine's internationally recognized borders.
Zelensky has every right to refuse to cede them to Russia.
This means he will need Ukraine's army to take them back by force, since Russia obviously isn't just going to leave.
Can he do it? Probably not, but you never know. He might as well try over the next several months. There are a few scenarios in which Ukraine could pull it off.
Donbass & Crimea are within Ukraine's internationally recognized borders.
Who cares? Are you going to give back the western part of the US if the "international community" recognizes that you took them in a war of aggression?
No wait, rules-based international order, where the US makes the rules and gives out the orders.
This means he will need Ukraine's army to take them back by force
Like Lindsey Graham, you want to fight for the US empire there until the last Ukrainian.
He might as well try over the next several months
He might as well try, because it's not your life on the line.
I would happily give up the west coast from San Francisco to Seattle if we could find any other country willing to take them.
That's because you don't want them. It's got nothing to do with the "rules-based international order" or any of the other phony justifications provided by the USG for its actions.
Fact is that the only justification for the USG actions is the right of the stronger, and that's something that countries like Russia and China will resist.
Yes it's Ukraine's lives, and thus their choice to risk them for victory.
It's the choice of the ruling class which was installed by the US (and I know you deny all that, but no need to go over it again). I'm sure that if the USG commanded my government to go to war with China, they'd draft me and (at least try to) send me over to die for the empire. Is it my choice? No. Nor anyone's.
Like their fellow Nazis during World War II, they'd burn down the entire country and sacrifice everyone.
The RBIO exists because a large majority of countries agree with it, it isn't just imposed by the United States. The US is its biggest, but not sole, military enforcer.
I disagree with the RBIO & call it the WLLH "white left liberal hegemony", which is the more accurate term now post Cold War.
More importantly, it is very typical to put your demands higher than they actually are so that when you negotiate down you still get what you want. Perhaps something along the lines of "We give up claims to Crimea if you give up claims to Donbas" sort of deal.
Either way, I dont see Putin agreeing either. This was really his only shot. If he does pull back, and then try again in a few years ready for round 2, Ukraine is going to be dug in and ready to rock and roll. This time with even more Western weapons that even just the samples have been rolling the Russians, not to mention Ukraine likely being in NATO or some sort of alliance protected by the US and other Western nations.
More importantly, it is very typical to put your demands higher than they actually are so that when you negotiate down you still get what you want.
Correct, but these are not demands, these are preconditions for any negotiation. This is clearly an attempt to prolong the war as long as possible.
This time with even more Western weapons that even just the samples have been rolling the Russians
Are you talking about those wreckages of the Bradleys and Leopards? Gotta say, there's nothing more satisfying than seeing the wrecks of Nazi-driven German tanks that were attacking Russia.
not to mention Ukraine likely being in NATO or some sort of alliance protected by the US and other Western nations.
You sound more enthusiastic about getting nuked than the average person is. Jingoism really is a disease. The victims of US empire cheering like mad dogs in favor of the US empire elsewhere, quite astonishing.
Also, in both cases they suffered extremely minor crew losses. So I would suppress that boner over "dead Nazis" if I was you.
You sound more enthusiastic about getting nuked
More like I have learned that when you are dealing with someone who acts tough but isnt, you respond by taking their gun, putting it up to your head, and saying "Pull the trigger! You wont, no balls!" Because they dont have the balls, and that is when you pull your own gun.
The way you invite the danger you fear is by acting weak.
US Empire
Honestly, I have come to learn the Republic was overrated. People say we are Rome 2.0? Sure, why not. Bring on the Empire! You aint seen Pax Americana yet, boy!
Link to Reddit, which links to Twitter, of a pro-Ukraine account with Mastodon in bio, which claims that it's undergoing repairs.
That's your heroic victory? No wonder the Westoids have been eerily quiet about their puppet's "counteroffensive".
So I would suppress that boner over "dead Nazis" if I was you.
I only said that they were driven by Nazis, and only to keep the symmetry with WW2. Unlike the Westoids cheering for Russian tourists being killed by sharks, I don't like to see people die - even confirmed Azov Battalion members. If I can see Western tanks get absolutely wrecked with 0 Ukrainians dying, so much the better! I can enjoy it with a clean conscience.
More like I have learned that when you are dealing with someone who acts tough but isnt, you respond by taking their gun, putting it up to your head, and saying "Pull the trigger! You wont, no balls!" Because they dont have the balls, and that is when you pull your own gun.
Got it, Putin isn't tough but Biden is. Russia isn't, but the country that places Puppy Play fetishists in charge of nuclear waste is.
I mean, aside from the sheer craziness of this, how do you make this stuff up?
The way you invite the danger you fear is by acting weak.
No, you do it by being weak. 'Memba how Russia was weak in the 1990s and the West used it to plunder the country and expand NATO up to its borders? Or China's Century of Humiliation? Or how Mexico was invaded by the US and had half its territory stolen?
Honestly, I have come to learn the Republic was overrated. People say we are Rome 2.0? Sure, why not.
The US sure has the degeneracy lined up. And in case you're not just playing dumb, obviously Rome had a territorial empire long before its rule transformed into an empire.
But of course, you said this to evade the question I was asking you. How come you know full well how bad the regime is, because you suffer from it at home, and yet cheer for it elsewhere? You know they lie about basically everything, including every war they got you into, but this time it's somehow different?
I was previously pro-Ukraine, until I saw John Mearsheimer's explanation of why the regime was responsible for the problems there. I'd actually supported the Maidan coup because the media here misinformed me about it. But after corona, all the lies in the past few years, how they're literally killing us with energy and farming policies, the mere fact that my government is pro-Ukraine would have been sufficient to make me pro-Russia. The enemy of my enemy...
(btw, you got an upvote from me simply because I enjoy the conversation, as grievously wrong as you are)
Why would they need to surrender though? The counteroffensive by the ukies has completely stalled and even more damning is that while they have taken some outlying villages they still haven't even hit the first main defense lines.
They have nothing to gain from surrendering, and if Crimea is the lynchpin for peace they will never ever give it up.
You are right there, but I don't see them taking that path anytime soon especially if that's what they need to give up. Honestly they might as well go all in at this point.
/roll
Donbass & Crimea are within Ukraine's internationally recognized borders.
Zelensky has every right to refuse to cede them to Russia.
This means he will need Ukraine's army to take them back by force, since Russia obviously isn't just going to leave.
Can he do it? Probably not, but you never know. He might as well try over the next several months. There are a few scenarios in which Ukraine could pull it off.
Who cares? Are you going to give back the western part of the US if the "international community" recognizes that you took them in a war of aggression?
No wait, rules-based international order, where the US makes the rules and gives out the orders.
Like Lindsey Graham, you want to fight for the US empire there until the last Ukrainian.
He might as well try, because it's not your life on the line.
I would happily give up the west coast from San Francisco to Seattle if we could find any other country willing to take them.
No, I'm just stating the obvious.
Yes it's Ukraine's lives, and thus their choice to risk them for victory.
That's because you don't want them. It's got nothing to do with the "rules-based international order" or any of the other phony justifications provided by the USG for its actions.
Fact is that the only justification for the USG actions is the right of the stronger, and that's something that countries like Russia and China will resist.
It's the choice of the ruling class which was installed by the US (and I know you deny all that, but no need to go over it again). I'm sure that if the USG commanded my government to go to war with China, they'd draft me and (at least try to) send me over to die for the empire. Is it my choice? No. Nor anyone's.
Like their fellow Nazis during World War II, they'd burn down the entire country and sacrifice everyone.
The RBIO exists because a large majority of countries agree with it, it isn't just imposed by the United States. The US is its biggest, but not sole, military enforcer.
I disagree with the RBIO & call it the WLLH "white left liberal hegemony", which is the more accurate term now post Cold War.
More importantly, it is very typical to put your demands higher than they actually are so that when you negotiate down you still get what you want. Perhaps something along the lines of "We give up claims to Crimea if you give up claims to Donbas" sort of deal.
Either way, I dont see Putin agreeing either. This was really his only shot. If he does pull back, and then try again in a few years ready for round 2, Ukraine is going to be dug in and ready to rock and roll. This time with even more Western weapons that even just the samples have been rolling the Russians, not to mention Ukraine likely being in NATO or some sort of alliance protected by the US and other Western nations.
Correct, but these are not demands, these are preconditions for any negotiation. This is clearly an attempt to prolong the war as long as possible.
Are you talking about those wreckages of the Bradleys and Leopards? Gotta say, there's nothing more satisfying than seeing the wrecks of Nazi-driven German tanks that were attacking Russia.
You sound more enthusiastic about getting nuked than the average person is. Jingoism really is a disease. The victims of US empire cheering like mad dogs in favor of the US empire elsewhere, quite astonishing.
Leopard: "I lived, bitch"
Bradley: "I lived, bitch"
Also, in both cases they suffered extremely minor crew losses. So I would suppress that boner over "dead Nazis" if I was you.
More like I have learned that when you are dealing with someone who acts tough but isnt, you respond by taking their gun, putting it up to your head, and saying "Pull the trigger! You wont, no balls!" Because they dont have the balls, and that is when you pull your own gun.
The way you invite the danger you fear is by acting weak.
Honestly, I have come to learn the Republic was overrated. People say we are Rome 2.0? Sure, why not. Bring on the Empire! You aint seen Pax Americana yet, boy!
Link to Reddit, which links to Twitter, of a pro-Ukraine account with Mastodon in bio, which claims that it's undergoing repairs.
That's your heroic victory? No wonder the Westoids have been eerily quiet about their puppet's "counteroffensive".
I only said that they were driven by Nazis, and only to keep the symmetry with WW2. Unlike the Westoids cheering for Russian tourists being killed by sharks, I don't like to see people die - even confirmed Azov Battalion members. If I can see Western tanks get absolutely wrecked with 0 Ukrainians dying, so much the better! I can enjoy it with a clean conscience.
Got it, Putin isn't tough but Biden is. Russia isn't, but the country that places Puppy Play fetishists in charge of nuclear waste is.
I mean, aside from the sheer craziness of this, how do you make this stuff up?
No, you do it by being weak. 'Memba how Russia was weak in the 1990s and the West used it to plunder the country and expand NATO up to its borders? Or China's Century of Humiliation? Or how Mexico was invaded by the US and had half its territory stolen?
The US sure has the degeneracy lined up. And in case you're not just playing dumb, obviously Rome had a territorial empire long before its rule transformed into an empire.
But of course, you said this to evade the question I was asking you. How come you know full well how bad the regime is, because you suffer from it at home, and yet cheer for it elsewhere? You know they lie about basically everything, including every war they got you into, but this time it's somehow different?
I was previously pro-Ukraine, until I saw John Mearsheimer's explanation of why the regime was responsible for the problems there. I'd actually supported the Maidan coup because the media here misinformed me about it. But after corona, all the lies in the past few years, how they're literally killing us with energy and farming policies, the mere fact that my government is pro-Ukraine would have been sufficient to make me pro-Russia. The enemy of my enemy...
(btw, you got an upvote from me simply because I enjoy the conversation, as grievously wrong as you are)
Why would they need to surrender though? The counteroffensive by the ukies has completely stalled and even more damning is that while they have taken some outlying villages they still haven't even hit the first main defense lines.
They have nothing to gain from surrendering, and if Crimea is the lynchpin for peace they will never ever give it up.
You are right there, but I don't see them taking that path anytime soon especially if that's what they need to give up. Honestly they might as well go all in at this point.
This is true. Deliberately settling sovereign territory with ethnic Russians and then calling it Russia does not make make it Russia.
Unless you think the Southwest belongs to Mexico.
I mean deka's not wrong. Ukraine is within it's right to lay the peace terms.
True, but you have to win first before you set peace terms.
And the way their "counteroffensive" is going, I do not see that happening unless NATO fully steps in.