The resident DeSantis obsessive (onetruephilosoraptor) made me think about this with his latest Trump-critical post. On one hand, Jeb Bush has been seen at DeSantis events. On the other hand, Caitlyn Jenner has been seen hanging out with Trump's kids/niece. Neither have officially endorsed any candidate but their feelings are clear.
On one hand you have a dude who, through his very public existence, helps in some way to normalize trannies. On the other hand you have a GOP, Inc dweeb who wants to bring America back under the control of the uniparty. It's a very tough choice, but I have to say Jeb is worse. People like the Bushes and Rupert Murdoch have megalomaniacal visions and still exercise significant influence over the country, whereas Caitlyn Jenner's delusion is personal and far less impactful.
Would agree, and generally I wouldn't go for guilt by association: nobody has any (direct) control over who endorses them.
But the Bushes (or Clintons/Obamas) are a special exception. I consider any endorsement from these ghouls as an endorsement by the administrative deep state.
Caitlyn Jenner is just a freak without any real power or connections to it.
Bruce is friends with Trump so that doesn't really matter to me if he endorses him. Trump still needs to talk about the LGBT agenda and grooming of kids like DeSantis has. If he doesn't that's a mark against him, more than any endorsement.
Likewise, Jeb endorsing "not Trump" doesn't surprise me.
Jeb!'s endorsement is one of the very worst endorsements possible. Right up there with being endorsed by Paul Ryan. To be endorsed by Jeb! is to lose populists everywhere.
Caitlyn's endorsement is relatively meaningless either way. It won't help, but it won't hinder either.
The only one worse might be Dick Cheyney.
The Bush's and Clinton's tried to have a political dynasty, literally making their own worse version of monarchies in the US because you know of Clinton or Jeb won, next would be Clinton's daughter or some shit like that.
Jenner is just someone mentally unwell but at least knows not to apply it to kids unlike other freaks, the first one's worse.
Both are cancer, make decisions on what the actual person's character is, there will always be horrible people surrounding a candidate who has to (generally speaking) get around half or more of the entire country on their side.
If they have integrity, competence, and many more good people than bad in their camp, that's a good sign.
I changed my mind a bit on Jenner when I heard him make an off color joke about the men's room at a golf event some weeks ago that honestly made me laugh. And he's isolated, as opposed to the dynastic wannabe bush family
Definitely living meme Jeb
Edit "GOP Inc dweeb" deserves a shout out for accuracy
Jeb and it's not even close.
I'm happy to give both a pass, for now.
Jenner and Trump go back and are celeb friends.
Jeb is florida's former govenor and will just support whoever the alternative to Trump is.
Neither is all that unexpected or dramatic an endorsement given their specific circumstances. Jeb would be worse, were it anyone but a subsequent florida govenor.
Jenner is emblematic of the fact that Trump is not a solution to, and has no solution for, societal moral decay. I'd go so far as to call Trump a degenerate in many respects. But low energy Jeb is not a good sign for Desantis either.
I'm voting for mein favorite artist
Jeb.
Jenner isn't significantly relevant, and is just trying to score some political points in the right place to make a career.
Jeb might be a completely worthless shit; but he's the extension of the Bush dynasty and is a figure-head for the deep state and Neo-Conservative movement.
Make no mistake. The government wanted Bush v. Clinton; and they were hoping that Bush would win it in 2024 after 8 years of Clinton.
It's like asking me: who's endorsement is worse: Vaush or David Koch. David Koch obviously. I don't care that Vaush is a Communist pedarist. David Koch is the fucking enemy.
Accepting the normalization of transgenderism to rationalize your devotion for Trump.
Jeb Bush merely attended Ron's inauguration. He has not influenced DeSantis' policy and he didn't even actually endorse DeSantis meanwhile the tranny is hanging out at Mar-a-lago and is openly promoting Trump's campaign.
Pathetic rationalization from you.
I'm not devoted to Trump, and I'm not against DeSantis. Actually DeSantis' biggest problem is his fans and boosters. You approach things like a raging autist and that gives me pause.
It's no secret that GOP big money doesn't want Trump. Many DeSantis donors supported Jeb's bid. They obviously influence his policy, the question is how much.
Who doesn't field the raging autist aupporters in politics anymore?
The DeSantis coalition does have some donors who despise Trump.
These people would support any rival to Trump who has a chance in the primary to beat Trump.
The difference is that they have no real influence over policy unlike in the Trump camp where Trump passed shitty policies like the first step act because he was influenced by his socially liberal friends like Bruce Jenner and Kim Kardashian.
DeSantis's record shows he will absolutely enact good conservative policy even when some of his donors hate it.
Your criticism of DeSantis supporters like me is laughable when Trump has TheImp and that weirdass DoritoPence guy non-stop simping for him in any thread they show up in.
Yes I am pretty outspoken in my support because I am sick of the people demanding that it MUST be Trump.
If Trump still becomes the nominee I would still begrudgingly vote for him while some of the Trump cultists here would sadly never do the right thing and vote for the GOP nominee if it was not Trump.
Can you name one?
Also: I see a field of promising Republican candidates, including DeSantis (and a couple of obvious pieces of shit like Pence and Haley), in addition to a known quantity in Trump with all of his flaws.
You see DeSantis and a field of grifters.
According to you, I'm the cultist.
Ken Griffin is a DeSantis donor and he hated that DeSantis took away Disney's ready creek deal and that he signed the 6 week heartbeat abortion ban bill.
I see DeSantis and Trump as the only people in the race. No one else has a shot at winning the nomination.
I see DeSantis as the only guy who has a shot of beating Trump in the primary and Biden in the general.
I view Trump as a flawed former President who hasn't learned from his mistakes.
I think the others like Pence, Haley and Christie are grifters.
So first, it's my understanding that that whole process is still being fought out and it may end up ultimately being a token gesture on DeSantis' part, accomplishing nothing.
Second ... I don't really give a damn about some dispute over some taxing authority in a chunk of land in Florida. And all we've seen DeSantis do so far (because it's all he has power to do) is some decent things in Florida that have no effect on the DC bureaucracy, except that the DC bureaucracy currently opposes them ideologically. He and Trump are both slinging campaign mud about who was worse in the covid response department, when an honest assessment of the situation is that they were probably equally "bad," but they occupied different positions so there's no way to gauge their responses equally.
Of course the only relevant people in the race are Trump and DeSantis, that's not my point. In fact, I'll one-up you and say that Trump is the only relevant person in the race. But you've attacked pretty much everybody else as a grifter with uncharitable or misleading posts about them and questioning their motives.
If DeSantis is the candidate you say he is, he will be up against the same uniparty "most votes and most legitimate election in history!" establishment that Trump was, except DeSantis has the charisma of a wet paper bag. He has no shot. RFK Jr. is more charismatic than he is and RFK can barely speak.
If he's the candidate that I (and many others) worry he is, then he'll only be up against the Democrat side of the establishment, and has a legitimate chance to win despite the GOP's incompetence, but I have no interest in voting for more neocon/neolib bullshit. If he doesn't come out hard in support of Trump voters and Trump himself after the primary instead of distancing himself from those "MAGA extremists", I'll be voting 3rd party.
I cut him slack for now because he's in a primary fight with Trump so I don't expect either of them to say nice things about each other and I ignore almost all of it, but that ends after the primary is over. Even if he wins the primary somehow, there's a huge MAGA base that he can not ignore if he wants a chance in hell to win. That would be the true tell, IMO, about whether he's an establishment shill or a genuinely populist candidate.
And, FYI, people like you (and Dave Rubin, who I listened to for years) are the ones that have made me extremely skeptical of DeSantis. So good job on that.
The main difference between you and me is that you approach your assessment from a lens that Trump is still an anti-establishment force and that it makes him the best candidate.
I will argue that Trump is not even anti-establishment these days. In 2015 he could credibly say that he was an outsider. Today things have changed.
He has created his own establishment in the GOP and conservative movement that I would call Populist Inc. You have grifters like Rogan O'Handley(DC Draino), Sebastian Gorka, Raheem Kassam, Alex Bruesewitz and Laura Loomer who have created their entire careers off Trump's brand. They spend more time attacking fellow conservatives, fomenting outrage and viciously attacking anyone not for Trump. It is a campaign that will fail to win swing votes.
It is tragic that the Trump 2024 campaign is being run by these populist Inc grifters.
You seem to be skeptical of DeSantis because you dislike Dave Rubin and you think that i am coming off too strong.
Meanwhile you don't seem to care about the rise of Populist Inc where they don't even care about winning elections and enacting policy. They only care about grifting off Trump. They would still be happy if Trump becomes the nominee and loses the general. They can just yell it was rigged again and the grift continues.
I see how the Trump 2024 campaign is being run and I have no honest hope that he can win a general election because he absolutely repulses swing voters and the campaign is making terrible optics by vicously attacking his own fellow hires like Jenna Ellis for merely dissenting with them.
Meanwhile DeSantis 2024 can appeal to swing voters and get enough populists to win a general. Clearly DeSantis won't be getting the most extreme OnlyTrumpers like TheImp, DoritoPence and a few others on this board but those people are certainly less in quantity than swing voters.
There is a path to victory for the DeSantis campaign and a likely defeat for the Populist Inc run Trump 2024 campaign.
DeSantis has a good record in Florida that makes me believe he would be a good conservative President and not a Bush retread.
I believe DeSantis has demonstrated he is great on policy and I just think he is much more electable than Trump.
The Imp is not representative of the average Trump fan. Unfortunately, can't say the same about you and DeSantis. You're not convincing anyone, but you keep getting madder and madder. It's just venting and that's not a good sign.
I've said before that Ace of Spades HQ is the best DeSantis booster, but also a victim of nerd rage. It's highly reminiscent of the temper tantrums people threw in the runup to 2016.
DeSantis revising his Ukraine statement proves this wrong. I'm not going to say he's on the leash of his donors, but it is a concern.
There is anger from people like me because I see people say that they won't vote for the GOP nominee if it is not Trump.
OnlyTrumpers are morons if they don't see how disastrous a Biden re-election is not only for the entire country but also for the one man they idolize. Trump will certainly die in prison if Biden wins his second term.
I am willing to vote for Trump begrudgingly if he becomes the nominee but these clowns won't reciprocate this.
I am fed with people who make excuses for Trump constantly.
This thread is an example of what I despise.
The normalization of transgenderism is unconscionable but some of you have the audacity to say that Trump normalizing it is much better than Jeb Bush merely showing up at an inauguration event for DeSantis in the state he was governor of.
I despise the OnlyTrumpers whose entire strategy is to lie about DeSantis and try to falsely tie him to Bush and Paul Ryan. These people are not judging DeSantis on his actual policies enacted but on guilt by association. Yet these clowns refuse to hold Trump to the same standard. I am sick of these double standards.
My anger is that some Trump supporters here have become abject cultists. Some of you will bend yourselves into pretzels to make excuses for him. That is what makes me disgusted.
There is not one actual policy action that DeSantis has changed with regards to donor complaints. You are complaining about words he used not any actions he has taken.
Yeah OK, but you're not accomplishing anything. That's my point. I think you know this as well.
DeSantis has an impregnable record on LGBT issues and anti-corporate warfare. But social issues are only one domain, and circumstances thus far have not called on him to take a stand on anything else.
I would feel more comfortable with his foreign policy if he stuck to calling Ukraine a territorial dispute. Unfortunately a donor got in the way.
I won't. I am sick of him and he needs to go, but his arrogance and selfishness make him seek another term. I'll vote for the Lolbert and laugh as he loses to Biden again.
You don't have to shill right now.