The issue that is completely ignored is that we have a growing number of young men who are involuntarily celibate every year thanks to rampant feminism and the complete lack of societal incentives to stop out of control female hypergamy.
The rise in male porn usage is a symptom not the main problem itself.
All these manosphere gurus more or less tell all these young men the basic red pill advice of just hit the gym, stop watching porn and go pursue girls in real life.
This advice will sadly not work for many men.
Society is on the highway to absolute hell if female hypergamy is not reined in.
Pretty much, I do agree with the angle of Jordan Peterson of 'cleaning your room' , ensuring that you are organised and clear of mind at home and of staying fit and healthy but unless you can stop feminism encouraging onlyfans as a quick way to make money, not take responsibility and engaging frequently in hedonistic activity, the whole porn debate is null.
This is a phrase Sargon heard that explains the mentality and problem currently facing men today:
She was never yours, it's just your turn
That is the most depressing shit I've ever heard in my life. Unless you can stamp out that mentality, there's no point trying to cut off the symptom of porn, it's probably keeping men safe than deal with these nihilistic women.
The "cleaning your room" style self development is useful for bettering yourself as an individual but it will not fix the real problem.
Our gynocentric societal structures enable and actively promote the worst hypergamy behaviors in women and they have completely eroded all benefits of marriage for men.
No amount of cleaning your room can transform a disloyal demonic whore into an loyal angel.
If forced to choose between the harmful effects of masterbating to porn and the harmful consequences of dating modern western women, masterbating to porn sadly seems like the lesser evil.
Exactly my point, all the self improvement are the best we can offer at the moment to ensure men don't waste away but for relationships, everything is null with the mentality of a lot of women.
Unless you're lucky to have a deeply religious girl to date, you'd need some kind of 'soul contract' where they can't disobey and be disloyal but that's in fantasy books only so I'm predicting a huge unrest when they all turn 35-40 and realise they wasted their lives with no family while any guy that self improved themselves but stayed out of dating even at 40-50 can pick up a 20-25 year old.
Yes, the guy that self improved can pick up a 20-25 year old woman later in his life but with how society is structured, that 20-25 year old woman still has no incentives to be loyal to him in a long term relationship.
The sad reality is that large groups of men and women alike will both ultimately end up very unhappy.
You correctly theorized that a lot of women will end up unhappy but the truth is men likely won't escape that fate either.
I honestly don't see a happy ending for the majority of men today regardless of what choice they make with regards to women.
Men who remain alone involuntarily throughout life will always feel extremely bitter about it. This is the group that is called incels.
Men who remain alone voluntarily can enjoy their career and hobbies but they will always still be sad that they will have never have a wholesome companionship that is depicted in fiction but doesn't exist anymore in reality. I myself am in this category. I have experienced too much of what modern western women are and have made my choice to be in this category. Still I know that on some level I still yearn for a wholesome and loving relationship with a hypothetical good woman that I won't ever find in reality.
Men who get married early and then likely get burned in a divorce will suffer financially and emotionally and those scars will remain permanently.
Men who get married late and then get likely get burned in a divorce will also suffer financially and emotionally and those scars will remain permanently.
Men who get married and stay married in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids will also suffer great psychological damage.
With how society is incentivizing the worst behaviors in women, how can a man get married and stay married in a happy marriage? Doesn't seem possible to me.
The current horrendous state of sexual dynamics ensures misery for pretty much everyone.
No joke, daddy issues is a real thing and I have noticed younger women be more submissive to older men. Does not apply to the majority but a very significant amount of women.
It's why Islam is one step ahead of the West culturally, they immediately stamp out these hedonistic attempts and make women more dependent on men. If we still had a nuclear family then none of this would be a problem.
But by removing two of the great anchors of a nuclear family (connection to older generation with grandparents and a strong connected ideological belief usually religion), things aren't that rosy for men. There are going to be a few needles here and there that are women that love being married, having a family and being a doting wife and mother but the haystack is the size of a mega city right now and we haven't got magnets to easily find them.
The big issue is that you never will never know if you found the mythical good woman until the moment you die where you can know for sure if she remained loyal to you till the very end
The good woman of today can divorce you anytime she wants in the future.
The Sword of Damocles always looms above.
Have you ever experienced being in love with someone who you think is perfect for you in every way and out of the blue she just betrays you one day and that is when you horrifically realize that you never really knew her at all?
Imagine going through that scenario not once but multiple times.
I have decided to be voluntarily alone than have to face this cruel scenario ever again.
I've had a girl just constantly tease when I was younger but fortunately that lasted only a year with no true commitments. After that my bullshit detector got an upgrade and I've avoided similar women.
Unfortunately getting personal here, I think I let a potential one go, I was just too young at the time, in high school, she was religious and liked me, I liked her but was just not mature enough to actively pursue to a full relationship.
Think the biggest issue nowadays is really the lack of community we used to have some odd 70 years ago where communities were a lot smaller and everyone knew everyone. It's still a thing is very small villages and I would hazard to guess that it's a lot easier to find someone in such a small community exactly because you hold together a lot more than in say a big city, a rejection gets talked about on those small communities whereas in the big city it's the norm.
You can still find some level of community like that, church would be one that comes to mind. Dunno about big cities but larger towns could be possible.
Kind of wish we still lived in such a society, one where you help your neighbours because you know them and there's no calculation behind doing good things for people. And well, it would certainly help with the partner search, connecting to someone in your very own community sounds a lot easier and even stable than randomly finding someone you have 0 other connections in common with.
The situation that existed 70+ years ago was the result of an ethnically homogeneous and high trust society.
We currently live in a low trust society.
Mass immigration has changed the ethnic demographics of the west significantly and created a ethnically diverse society that fosters low trust.
One of the main obstacles to creating a high trust society is that all the major institutions have been corrupted and subverted to promote selfishness in women while trying to brainwash men to unilaterally sacrifice.
These corrupted institutions also constantly promote hedonism, materialism and they teach girls at a young age to favor short term pleasure over long term prosperity.
The issue that is completely ignored is that we have a growing number of young men who are involuntarily celibate
I would argue that porn use and lack of sex are related but not the same issue.
Back when I still used reddit, before I was banned from the sub for advocating rape :), I remember on "relationships" a girl complained that her boyfriend basically ignored her for porn. Despite her offering to enthusiastically do all the degenerate shit he was watching. And assuming she put up real pics she was very decent looking. It might have been fake but I saw enough similar stories not on reddit, mostly from women, that the scenario seems plausible.
IMO the problem is first the poisoned culture that elevates sex so that it seems like a mythical experience and an "achievement" for the guys who haven't had it yet.
Second it is the availability of porn. Because you see it at too young of an age and your brain never really recovers from that dopamine peak making other experiences, including real sex, seem lesser.
And 3rd the gay commie "psychologists" have de-stigmatized masturbation and indoctrinated anyone younger than 70 through subverted media that "its perfectly normal" and "there isn't anything wrong with it" so that is the message they pass on to their kids. Instead of "there is something wrong with it, you should feel guilty about it" which in turn puts up at least some barriers.
We used to have a functional dating market that approximated this. Since it required that women not be complete and utter whores it didn't survive feminism.
Correct but since women are complete and utter whores, I think we should consider making sex a human right and having a Universal Guaranteed Sex Quota for each person. The government will pay for a prostitute 3 times a week for an hour for every man.
Porn really does have many negative effects.
The issue that is completely ignored is that we have a growing number of young men who are involuntarily celibate every year thanks to rampant feminism and the complete lack of societal incentives to stop out of control female hypergamy.
The rise in male porn usage is a symptom not the main problem itself.
All these manosphere gurus more or less tell all these young men the basic red pill advice of just hit the gym, stop watching porn and go pursue girls in real life.
This advice will sadly not work for many men.
Society is on the highway to absolute hell if female hypergamy is not reined in.
Pretty much, I do agree with the angle of Jordan Peterson of 'cleaning your room' , ensuring that you are organised and clear of mind at home and of staying fit and healthy but unless you can stop feminism encouraging onlyfans as a quick way to make money, not take responsibility and engaging frequently in hedonistic activity, the whole porn debate is null.
This is a phrase Sargon heard that explains the mentality and problem currently facing men today:
She was never yours, it's just your turn
That is the most depressing shit I've ever heard in my life. Unless you can stamp out that mentality, there's no point trying to cut off the symptom of porn, it's probably keeping men safe than deal with these nihilistic women.
The "cleaning your room" style self development is useful for bettering yourself as an individual but it will not fix the real problem.
Our gynocentric societal structures enable and actively promote the worst hypergamy behaviors in women and they have completely eroded all benefits of marriage for men.
No amount of cleaning your room can transform a disloyal demonic whore into an loyal angel.
If forced to choose between the harmful effects of masterbating to porn and the harmful consequences of dating modern western women, masterbating to porn sadly seems like the lesser evil.
Exactly my point, all the self improvement are the best we can offer at the moment to ensure men don't waste away but for relationships, everything is null with the mentality of a lot of women.
Unless you're lucky to have a deeply religious girl to date, you'd need some kind of 'soul contract' where they can't disobey and be disloyal but that's in fantasy books only so I'm predicting a huge unrest when they all turn 35-40 and realise they wasted their lives with no family while any guy that self improved themselves but stayed out of dating even at 40-50 can pick up a 20-25 year old.
Yes, the guy that self improved can pick up a 20-25 year old woman later in his life but with how society is structured, that 20-25 year old woman still has no incentives to be loyal to him in a long term relationship.
The sad reality is that large groups of men and women alike will both ultimately end up very unhappy.
You correctly theorized that a lot of women will end up unhappy but the truth is men likely won't escape that fate either.
I honestly don't see a happy ending for the majority of men today regardless of what choice they make with regards to women.
Men who remain alone involuntarily throughout life will always feel extremely bitter about it. This is the group that is called incels.
Men who remain alone voluntarily can enjoy their career and hobbies but they will always still be sad that they will have never have a wholesome companionship that is depicted in fiction but doesn't exist anymore in reality. I myself am in this category. I have experienced too much of what modern western women are and have made my choice to be in this category. Still I know that on some level I still yearn for a wholesome and loving relationship with a hypothetical good woman that I won't ever find in reality.
Men who get married early and then likely get burned in a divorce will suffer financially and emotionally and those scars will remain permanently.
Men who get married late and then get likely get burned in a divorce will also suffer financially and emotionally and those scars will remain permanently.
Men who get married and stay married in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids will also suffer great psychological damage.
With how society is incentivizing the worst behaviors in women, how can a man get married and stay married in a happy marriage? Doesn't seem possible to me.
The current horrendous state of sexual dynamics ensures misery for pretty much everyone.
No joke, daddy issues is a real thing and I have noticed younger women be more submissive to older men. Does not apply to the majority but a very significant amount of women.
It's why Islam is one step ahead of the West culturally, they immediately stamp out these hedonistic attempts and make women more dependent on men. If we still had a nuclear family then none of this would be a problem.
But by removing two of the great anchors of a nuclear family (connection to older generation with grandparents and a strong connected ideological belief usually religion), things aren't that rosy for men. There are going to be a few needles here and there that are women that love being married, having a family and being a doting wife and mother but the haystack is the size of a mega city right now and we haven't got magnets to easily find them.
The big issue is that you never will never know if you found the mythical good woman until the moment you die where you can know for sure if she remained loyal to you till the very end
The good woman of today can divorce you anytime she wants in the future.
The Sword of Damocles always looms above.
Have you ever experienced being in love with someone who you think is perfect for you in every way and out of the blue she just betrays you one day and that is when you horrifically realize that you never really knew her at all?
Imagine going through that scenario not once but multiple times.
I have decided to be voluntarily alone than have to face this cruel scenario ever again.
I've had a girl just constantly tease when I was younger but fortunately that lasted only a year with no true commitments. After that my bullshit detector got an upgrade and I've avoided similar women.
Unfortunately getting personal here, I think I let a potential one go, I was just too young at the time, in high school, she was religious and liked me, I liked her but was just not mature enough to actively pursue to a full relationship.
Hindsight is a bitch I can tell you....
Think the biggest issue nowadays is really the lack of community we used to have some odd 70 years ago where communities were a lot smaller and everyone knew everyone. It's still a thing is very small villages and I would hazard to guess that it's a lot easier to find someone in such a small community exactly because you hold together a lot more than in say a big city, a rejection gets talked about on those small communities whereas in the big city it's the norm.
You can still find some level of community like that, church would be one that comes to mind. Dunno about big cities but larger towns could be possible.
Kind of wish we still lived in such a society, one where you help your neighbours because you know them and there's no calculation behind doing good things for people. And well, it would certainly help with the partner search, connecting to someone in your very own community sounds a lot easier and even stable than randomly finding someone you have 0 other connections in common with.
The situation that existed 70+ years ago was the result of an ethnically homogeneous and high trust society.
We currently live in a low trust society.
Mass immigration has changed the ethnic demographics of the west significantly and created a ethnically diverse society that fosters low trust.
One of the main obstacles to creating a high trust society is that all the major institutions have been corrupted and subverted to promote selfishness in women while trying to brainwash men to unilaterally sacrifice.
These corrupted institutions also constantly promote hedonism, materialism and they teach girls at a young age to favor short term pleasure over long term prosperity.
I would argue that porn use and lack of sex are related but not the same issue.
Back when I still used reddit, before I was banned from the sub for advocating rape :), I remember on "relationships" a girl complained that her boyfriend basically ignored her for porn. Despite her offering to enthusiastically do all the degenerate shit he was watching. And assuming she put up real pics she was very decent looking. It might have been fake but I saw enough similar stories not on reddit, mostly from women, that the scenario seems plausible.
IMO the problem is first the poisoned culture that elevates sex so that it seems like a mythical experience and an "achievement" for the guys who haven't had it yet.
Second it is the availability of porn. Because you see it at too young of an age and your brain never really recovers from that dopamine peak making other experiences, including real sex, seem lesser.
And 3rd the gay commie "psychologists" have de-stigmatized masturbation and indoctrinated anyone younger than 70 through subverted media that "its perfectly normal" and "there isn't anything wrong with it" so that is the message they pass on to their kids. Instead of "there is something wrong with it, you should feel guilty about it" which in turn puts up at least some barriers.
Does not address why men resort to porn and completely ignored the source of the problem.
does not, but having highly credible men point out WHY it shouldn't be used without any moral judgement helps the cause
the more positive sources there are out there, the harder they become to counter signal
Sounds like we should be guaranteeing at least 1 hot 18yo woman 3 times a week to every man to have sex with so he has no need to jerk off.
We used to have a functional dating market that approximated this. Since it required that women not be complete and utter whores it didn't survive feminism.
Correct but since women are complete and utter whores, I think we should consider making sex a human right and having a Universal Guaranteed Sex Quota for each person. The government will pay for a prostitute 3 times a week for an hour for every man.
What is more likely is that they give these men subsidized euthanasia instead.
Look at Canada and what they are promoting with MAID.
I can see a government official saying "it is cheaper and it gets rid of demographics we don't like! Win win!"
Considering that “government issued” anything is usually garbage, I’m worried the standard of ladies would be lacking.
Couple that with the fact that they consider “Rachel” Levine a woman, and I don’t think the birth rate’s swinging back any time soon
rofl
Yes
timestamp link appears to have failed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O640yAgq5f8&t=2435s
"the optimal number is zero"