Russia has no claim to say what alliances Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, etc get to enter into; bordering Russia does not make them part of Russia.
Except that obviously they do have that claim, because look around you. They're claiming it, and what exactly are you going to do about it?
Attempting to build up your (belligerent) alliance up to someone's doorstep, when they have the ability to defend themselves against this, is retard diplomacy.
If a man across a field swings his fist I dont care. If a man 3 feet from me swings his fist I'll tell him to knock it off. If he doesnt the escalation is required. You dont have to wait until you are on the ground bleeding to deal with a reasonable threat.
Are you saying the US should have just said "well we dont like it but cant do anything" when the USSR made moves to arm up Cuba?
Sure. Philosophically that's true. But welcome to geopolitics. Poland already doesn't do what Poland wants to do in this respect. Poland does whatever the US State Department wants it to. The same goes for every other country. You either belong to the US sphere of influence or Russia's (or China elsewhere).
You think Mexico and Canada would be free to join a Russian led anti-United States military alliance?
The real world isn't a moralistic debate about who should or shouldn't have claim to X, Y, and Z, it's a game of raw power. Whoever has it, wields it. Right and wrong doesn't need to factor into that calculus at all.
Exactly. I always see people bring up how its terrible that all these countries joined NATO and that is a threat to Russia. But I never see those same people stopping to ask why they join NATO.
But I suppose it is irrational. After all, none of those nations have histories with Russia. None of them have any reason at all to hate Russia. They definitely werent oppressed for centuries and are now saying "Never again" at the concept of Russian aggression. And If something like that happened, I am sure it would not make them want to join a military alliance for the purpose of protection. It would also have nothing to do with seeing threats of Russian aggression and responding with "Do it pussy! Make my fucking day!"
It really is a mystery why Poland, the Czechs, the Slovenians, the various Baltic states, and others are giving Ukraine just about every weapon that isnt nailed down, with a note attached saying "Give'em hell!"
You don’t shit where you eat. When Ukraine falls, tag you’re it. Nobody wants that musical chair as bullwark against the east. Still doesn’t mean Putins not making the right moves. Sucks, but this order was placed before it was served.
I dont understand what you mean. None of them want to be part of Russia, and so they will all fight for their freedom. If Russia wants someplace to not "shit where they eat", they can go to Belarus (who is the only former Soviet state that actually likes Russia). Every other nation in that region would sooner burn it all to the ground than go back to Russia. And quite frankly, I dont fucking blame them. And even if they lose, I hope they drag millions of vatniks to hell before they fall.
Nations aren't people and don't have wants. I know it's a turn of phrase, but im just saying there are plenty of people in Ukraine who dont want the war to go on any longer.
Russia has no claim to say what alliances Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, etc get to enter into; bordering Russia does not make them part of Russia.
Except that obviously they do have that claim, because look around you. They're claiming it, and what exactly are you going to do about it?
Attempting to build up your (belligerent) alliance up to someone's doorstep, when they have the ability to defend themselves against this, is retard diplomacy.
If a man across a field swings his fist I dont care. If a man 3 feet from me swings his fist I'll tell him to knock it off. If he doesnt the escalation is required. You dont have to wait until you are on the ground bleeding to deal with a reasonable threat.
Are you saying the US should have just said "well we dont like it but cant do anything" when the USSR made moves to arm up Cuba?
You appear confused, or you're replying to the wrong person.
Sure. Philosophically that's true. But welcome to geopolitics. Poland already doesn't do what Poland wants to do in this respect. Poland does whatever the US State Department wants it to. The same goes for every other country. You either belong to the US sphere of influence or Russia's (or China elsewhere).
You think Mexico and Canada would be free to join a Russian led anti-United States military alliance?
The real world isn't a moralistic debate about who should or shouldn't have claim to X, Y, and Z, it's a game of raw power. Whoever has it, wields it. Right and wrong doesn't need to factor into that calculus at all.
Exactly. I always see people bring up how its terrible that all these countries joined NATO and that is a threat to Russia. But I never see those same people stopping to ask why they join NATO.
But I suppose it is irrational. After all, none of those nations have histories with Russia. None of them have any reason at all to hate Russia. They definitely werent oppressed for centuries and are now saying "Never again" at the concept of Russian aggression. And If something like that happened, I am sure it would not make them want to join a military alliance for the purpose of protection. It would also have nothing to do with seeing threats of Russian aggression and responding with "Do it pussy! Make my fucking day!"
It really is a mystery why Poland, the Czechs, the Slovenians, the various Baltic states, and others are giving Ukraine just about every weapon that isnt nailed down, with a note attached saying "Give'em hell!"
You don’t shit where you eat. When Ukraine falls, tag you’re it. Nobody wants that musical chair as bullwark against the east. Still doesn’t mean Putins not making the right moves. Sucks, but this order was placed before it was served.
I dont understand what you mean. None of them want to be part of Russia, and so they will all fight for their freedom. If Russia wants someplace to not "shit where they eat", they can go to Belarus (who is the only former Soviet state that actually likes Russia). Every other nation in that region would sooner burn it all to the ground than go back to Russia. And quite frankly, I dont fucking blame them. And even if they lose, I hope they drag millions of vatniks to hell before they fall.
Nations aren't people and don't have wants. I know it's a turn of phrase, but im just saying there are plenty of people in Ukraine who dont want the war to go on any longer.
I can dig your irony.