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27
America’s divisions will only get worse (unherd.com)
posted 5 years ago by Eldourado 5 years ago by Eldourado +27 / -0
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▲ 29 ▼
– Throwawaycuzmeh 29 points 5 years ago +29 / -0

And all the while, that crucial middle ground, those people who recognise that there certainly are voting irregularities in the American system and that, notwithstanding, Donald Trump lost the election, is vacated

What a retarded sentence. Those irregularities occurred in precisely the states that decided the election. How could a person simultaneously believe the election was rife with such irregularities and that Trump lost regardless? If that's Murray's idea of a "middle ground", then that middle ground isn't "vanishing" - it never even existed. Because it makes no sense.

Also, is he going to acknowledge that every example he gives of denial of reality happens to be the democrats? This "both sides" bullshit is stupid. Exactly one group of people is dragging this country towards civil war. Spoiler: it's the side trying to radically alter every single facet of American life.

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▲ 17 ▼
– bigbear51 17 points 5 years ago +17 / -0

The both sides arguement has been massively overused, especially during these last few years in politics. I've hated that people accept it because it's the "nonextreme" path. It almost never gets questioned by many people who want to stay out of the conflict, but there's also never been an arguement made for that position.

Could someone argue the existence of irregularities and still say that Trump lost anyway? Perhaps, but that would only be if these irregularities occured in a few counties at most. But one side has shown it's a lot more than just that, and that it's at least worth looking into.

And another thing. Since when has fraud just been accepted? If the arguement is that it happens all the time in a small scale, why should we just accept it? We have a right to vote in the US, and if there's fraud, then the people doing it are trampling on our rights. I don't care who's doing it, because they're ultimately screwing with everyone when they do it.

I didn't mention this in my rant about neutrals last week. But I personally feel that most people who try to take middle ground are usually left leaning. Not leftists, or the extreme type trying to pretend to win some consession. Just the type that don't want to admit that their side can be wrong, or being crazy, or in this case breaking the law.

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▲ 8 ▼
– BandageBandolier 8 points 5 years ago +8 / -0

I've hated that people accept it because it's the "nonextreme" path.

Depending on the motivation it's also the pussy path, too many people are too scared to make a decision based on their own judgement and commit to the full consequences of that, so they make a psuedo-decision that doesn't actually commit them to anything and lets them join the side with the least consequences at a later date.

And I say this as someone who likes to fully understand the reality of the situation and thinks everyone is capable of being a cunt, so I do often see issues with "both sides", but just as often the relative issues are so disparate in size realistically only one side is an actual problem. Most people who fencesit on the "both sides" line are either rats biding their time or can't count high enough to understand the difference between 5 wrongdoings and 5000 wrongdoings and think both are comparable. The principled shades of grey complaints are in the minority these days.

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▲ 9 ▼
– deleted 9 points 5 years ago +9 / -0
▲ 12 ▼
– VerGreeneyes 12 points 5 years ago +12 / -0

The only way I see any kind of healing after this is if fraud on a massive scale is proved in a court of law and Trump is declared the victor before the deadline is reached and the House has to decide.

At that point I think media might actually report on the court cases simply because they realize that civil war is inevitable if they don't, and that would actually hurt their bottom line.

If the fraud remains unproven, if the courts side with Biden despite whatever proof is available or if either Biden or Trump is declared the victor through a vote in the House, then I think you're entirely fucked. The two sides will never, ever reconcile without first going through armed conflict.

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▲ 9 ▼
– onetruephilosoraptor 9 points 5 years ago +9 / -0

Based on how fucking shit 2020 is going I would guess the most likely end would be a hot civil war breaks out after Trump wins via a vote in the House.

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▲ 11 ▼
– evilplushie 11 points 5 years ago +11 / -0

Civil war is going to be the only option

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▲ 1 ▼
– cccpneveragain 1 point 5 years ago +1 / -0

I didn't mind this article until in turned into yet another propaganda piece. Well done, Douglas Murray. You sucked me in with truth before feeding me your opinion. That's more than most "journalists" can manage.

I've it said before, this doesn't end until there's blood in the streets, and I don't mean some criminal on drugs suffocating. I tend to think if Trump does end up retaining the office, the blood comes much sooner, as if Biden is named President the right will back away easier and a lot more of them will buy into the nice thoughts of "we will try again in 2022". I suppose there could be an alternate situation where the blood is spilled quietly in the alleyways, but that's just too defeating for me to want to consider.

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