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35
Is the Culture War Lost? (written discussion between ex-Muslims Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Sarah Haider) (letter.wiki)
posted 5 years ago by Royalalbatross 5 years ago by Royalalbatross +35 / -0
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▲ 18 ▼
– Royalalbatross [S] 18 points 5 years ago +18 / -0

Haider:

Over the previous few decades, a new ideology had taken hold throughout liberal and progressive circles: writer and cultural critic Wesley Yang called it “the successor ideology,” but now it’s more usually called wokeism. At its core, this ideology is a delegitimization project—and it targets the very foundations of humanist, Enlightenment values. Wokeism is not the only movement to exploit the same programming that makes us vulnerable to religion. But it has achieved astounding success because it has also managed to neutralize liberals, who might otherwise stand against religious impulses, by hijacking our caring instinct, and by ruthlessly exploiting social dynamics to crush dissent. 

Ali:

I now see that it is a distinct and quasi-religious ideology. It is interesting to see the symbiotic relationship there has been between the Islamists and the woke. That may be material for another letter. But for now, I want to respond to your words:  When I first began speaking publicly about Islam, I quickly found ... that those whom I anticipated would be on our side viewed me with suspicion. My criticisms of Islam were based on the very principles that those liberals claimed to champion, and yet I was swiftly rejected by them. This behavior left me stunned and confused, so I set out to understand it. My understanding is that you and I mistook many of the woke for true liberals when in fact they are anything but.

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▲ 7 ▼
– w-duranty6489 7 points 5 years ago +7 / -0

The woke are just socialists.

https://archive.vn/MyKOx newdiscourses

The Complex Relationship between Marxism and Wokeness JULY 28, 2020 ·JAMES LINDSAY

Their underlying assumption is that the elites define what constitutes the ostensibly “authentic” culture in a way that brainwashes the masses into working, voting, buying, and living against their own best interests, and the masses need their consciousnesses raised and made critical so they’d start hating their lives, as the Critical Theorists believed was right and proper for them, and then revolt.

In this way, it’s probably more accurate to describe the efforts of Critical Social Justice not as Marxist but as ethno-communist, where “ethnicity” here applies to the “culture” of any particular “systemically oppressed” identity group.

https://archive.vn/hrXQj newdiscourses

Critical Theories: A Virus on a Liberal Body Politic MARCH 17, 2020 ·JAMES LINDSAY

From this description, it’s immediately clear that critical theory is a different kind of project than critical thinking. It is, in fact, one that, as Bailey tells us, though expressed in terms perhaps more familiar to Neo-Marxist thought, must resist, disrupt, dismantle, and subvert critical thinking because critical thinking is already part of the existing hegemonic system of dominance that defines society.

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▲ 15 ▼
– almond_activator 15 points 5 years ago +15 / -0

The aggressive side of the culture war is, at its core, engaged in a struggle against reality. It cannot survive forever, but it can do unimaginable damage before it fails.

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▲ 7 ▼
– ramzaruglia 7 points 5 years ago +7 / -0

The culture war is only lost if you only concede to it. I don't. Do you?

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▲ 6 ▼
– ailurus 6 points 5 years ago +6 / -0

I think the end is near, one way or another, and we'll know in a month or two.

I'll agree with the first letter that the institutions are indeed converged to a scary level. The question, though, is how much influence those institutions still have. A good number of people have revolted against them, so they are weaker, but I don't know how weak.

The problem with the second letter is that I think she's putting too much faith in how much the average person cares about true liberal ideals. The virus has shown that many people are willing to throw away most every freedom and principle they have in the same of safety. And while wokeism isn't appealing, it can certainly be scary.

As for the end of the war, I think the election is a huge barometer. If Trump wins - especially very convincingly - then Wokeism is in serious trouble. I don't see them lasting another 2 or 4 years without mostly self-disintegrating, especially if the average American tells them to sit down and shut up.

If Biden comes out on top, then I'll agree with the first letter that they've won for now. They'll still end up imploding, eventually, because it is an unsustainable ideology, but I doubt there will be that much left worth salvaging by the time that happens.

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▲ 5 ▼
– Decrixxx 5 points 5 years ago +5 / -0

Is the Culture War Lost?

demoralization goal is to make you think that, is never lost, always kickback.

when you lose culture war, that is the moment the door of your house gets pulled down and bunches of dudes with automatic rifles storm in, and force you to read some holy book while you were dining with your family.

I see more and more people getting aware of instead. far from lost my friend.

Everyone whose hobby is not politic has better to do that spamming everyday twitter. so if fine taking breaks don't worry.

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▲ 3 ▼
– Zerohunt 3 points 5 years ago +3 / -0

If it is lost, all we need to do is wait until it eats itself. Even now, TURFs (the start of wokeism) are tryings to get rid of it. Gay men are getting real tired of it, too. I beliebe Bi is next. It will burn itself out, faster now that everything is locked down.

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▲ 14 ▼
– stanzololthrowaway 14 points 5 years ago +14 / -0

If it is lost, all we need to do is wait until it eats itself.

That's not a real option. It took communism nearly 100 years before it collapsed from the weight of its own contradictions. We don't have the luxury of waiting around.

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▲ 10 ▼
– w-duranty6489 10 points 5 years ago +10 / -0

Tell me how the 100 million dead from communism, and their resurgence in America, the still ongoing Chinese concentration camps and Maduro's Venezuelan fief "ate themselves".

Insurgents in Afghanistan and Vietnam were backed by millions of dollars and foregin arms.

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▲ 7 ▼
– GoggleHead 7 points 5 years ago +7 / -0

Sitting around waiting for the problem to solve itself is how we got here.

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▲ 13 ▼
– deleted 13 points 5 years ago +13 / -0

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