I finally got around to watching this - I'll try not to wander into a review of the entire show.
First of all, there is still entirely too much talking. The actors are being directed to put the uttermost grim emphases on every single line because this is a Very Serious Show, but the plot is very short on developments and very long on dialogue.
Incredibly this even hurts the runup to significant events like the Battle of Ghorman. The local rebel chapter and Syril the wannabe ISB agent spend so much time hacking it up between the two of them that it becomes unclear exactly when Syril started sympathizing with them, or worse yet, maybe this was never even defined. The Rebels talk about doing direct action, but even on this subject the details are maddeningly thin. We are told of military transports and hijackings that we never see, nor see the effects of. What effects? Doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the narrative of the Ghormans rebelling, which is something that doesn't require 5 hours of television to communicate but nevertheless somehow does.
So onto the actual battle itself: it becomes apparent in the first few scenes of the episode that the Rebels are retarded, and this condition only intensifies through the runtime. "But that's the point." OK, so:
- the Imperials made a big show of setting up barricades and deploying brownshirts in the plaza (days before anything happened)
- Andor, acting as a representative of the experienced Rebellion, warned the Rebels that direct action is a huge mistake for several reasons
- Syril the ISB infiltrator also had a change of heart and warned the Rebels the plaza was basically a January 6th trap
But the Rebels are like "nah, we good" and proceed to plan and execute the dumbest gorilla warfare I have ever seen in my life:
- Organize hundreds of peaceful civilians to march into the plaza and chant at the Imperials
- Hide blasters and molotov cocktails under civilian clothes and march in the middle of them
- Ignore the stormtroopers that suddenly appeared to cut off the plaza exits
- Instigate the Imperials into a shootout
- Get yourselves and a few hundred people mowed down because you're surrounded by snipers, barricades, stormtroopers, and death robots, and all you've got is a space Burberry coat and a blaster (there's also TIE fighters ready to do strafing runs btw)
Yes, the Imperials were the party that actually ignited the conflict by sniping their own men, but it was made clear that the rebels knew a fight was going to happen and marched to the plaza expecting one. Even though the rebels are supposed to be feckless idiots, this is such a deliberately moronic plan that it actually harms suspension of disbelief and should make you question the rebel cause itself. What kind of monsters would deliberately put hundreds of people in danger for reasons of optics? The Imperial objective and the Rebel objective are literally the same.
Not that the Imperials are geniuses either. Why is the K2SO robot squad programmed solely to throw people in the air? Are they repurposed from a water park or something? Why don't they have blasters? Why don't they punch or kick people?
Where are the overwhelming stormtrooper reinforcements cutting off the rebel stragglers from all sides? Why is the battle virtually nonexistent outside of the plaza? What are the TIEs doing?
The unwieldy dialogue also harms the basic functions of the Imperials. Every line in this show must be wrought with emotive significance, and the result is that not even military officers are capable of passing basic information to each other without getting into pseudo-Shakespearean pissing matches. This is an underrated thing about the genuine Lucas Star Wars: a battle droid says "Captain, take them to Camp 4" and the other battle droid says "roger roger" without so much as a brooding pause, a furrowed brow, a soulful glance, or a long closeup. Actually I'm pretty sure the separatist army would clobber the ISB easily.
All that being said, it was entertaining seeing rebels and stormtroopers finally get in a gunfight after 7 hours of gasbags jabbering back and forth. 6/10
Haven't watched the show and don't plan to, but isn't that actually good storytelling? Writers often takes the lazy route of some big event leading to an immediate swap of allegiances. A gradual change of sympathies where the person themselves doesn't even know exactly when the scales started tipping the other way is more realistic. Having someone undercover get gradually drawn in is a better story than having a villain kick the dog.
It is good storytelling if the turn makes sense. It doesn't need to be crystal clear in the moment, but you should be able to retroactively analyze and pick out the details of a character's gradual slide from one point to another.
Complexity is good. Vagueness is not. But in the universe of wannabe prestige TV, a lot of writers are going to confuse the latter with the former.
With Syril we never really figure out what he thinks of the Ghormans. He was gung ho to infiltrate the Rebels at the direction of the ISB so presumably he was OK with getting them arrested and killed, but later on he seems to think that stoking a Rebel conflict as a pretext to mine rocks is bad and wrong. OK. Why? Because he got too close to the Rebels? Or because that always conflicted with his moral values? He never confronts those ideas so ultimately we have no clue.
If you look at Tony Soprano instead, who is the gold standard of complex, contradictory antiheroes (and exactly the character that TV has been chasing ever since, including in Andor), the writers clearly display certain facets of his character in different subplots, then bring those facets into conflict through other subplots as Tony's angels and devils fight on his shoulder. When did Tony become an irredeemable criminal and why? There is no One True Interpretation the writers signal, but there are several strong arguments one can make because the universe of details is so rich. And the Sopranos writers did that with the same screentime as Andor and every other hourlong show.
The turn never happened. Syril didn't start sympathizing with the rebels, he became disillusioned with his Empire. Big difference.
He's right about to shoot and kill rebel Andor because at the end he thinks they're both bad, empire and rebels. That's why he has to die because otherwise Andor would. Syril can't let Andor escape and then Syril runs off and joins the rebels because at the end he's not a rebel.
In this case by "the turn" I meant to refer to a turning point where a character alters their destiny, not a change of heart. But in any case, it's clear that Syril is disillusioned with the Empire. So why is that? Because they hurt a bunch of people? He's never shown much feeling about civilian casualties one way or the other.
If he still hates the Rebels then why does that not come across in tone or content when he warns his Rebel contact about the trap? Are we to assume that he has zero feelings for them still?
If I'm making assumptions then it seems that Syril harbors a delusion that his bean-counting and tattle-telling makes him some kind of guardian of order over the people, and therefore the Empire deliberately fomenting disorder offends him. But I'm doing just that - making assumptions. There's not enough substance to back them up. Instead, we get an irrelevant subplot with his mother that's obviously some writer's psychodrama.
Cyril is Justice, and there's no place for Justice in that world. He never changed at all in the entire story, he just ran out of Just causes.
In the beginning he's like, what you guys are just going to cover up this crime and move on, and he leaves the police force but doesn't become a criminal. He gets in with the empire intelligence and thinks now he's in the big leagues doing right and finds out they're just a bigger version of the local cops.
That's almost certainly what the writers were going for, but it's not well-explored. The strongest piece of evidence shouldn't be a callback to the first subplot of season 1. The stuff with his mother was a pure waste of time.
It's also not a very complex or human motivation for a show that desperately wants to be seen as serious and thought-provoking.
The stuff with his mother is to emphasize that he has a child-like view of morality.
How is it that this adult has such a naïve view of justice? Because he never grew up.
Probably best not to criticize the writing any more. These things that you don't understand the relevance of are in fact in service of the plot. You can say well you'd prefer it be more Twain and less Dickens, but that says more about you than the author.
Take the slice of life character study out of the spy thriller series, please.
I wouldn't take criticism of this show personally. You didn't write it. This is neither Twain nor Dickens, and that is not a plot.
It only doesn’t make sense because so much had to be cut for the sake of time. He spent 3 years there and started sympathizing with them. Unfortunately the nuanced change is lost due to the lack of episodes.
I thought Andor was a masterpiece compared to the last jedi
Dude, even the Phantom Menace is a masterpiece compared to the Last Jedi.
I tried watching it and clocked out (or snoozed out) at the 3rd episode.
By the way, I like Diego Luna as a hardened rebel spy, but Andor is not very impressive as a main character. The dude books a hotel room with a view of the plaza, but when it comes time to snipe an ISB agent he heads down to the lobby and checks out? Huh?? Then he gets pressed in a fistfight by a bureaucrat that literally sits at a computer all day? And has to be saved by a 65-year old man?
The slickest moves Andor has pulled in this show are all basically walking up to hapless people and shooting them in the face. Just doesn't seem like he has a lot of skills.
I stopped watching Disney Star Wars a while back but I’ve heard this show is good. Personally my head canon is the pre Disney stuff so 1-6 and the EU
It's good and bad.
Andor is the closest thing ever made to the original trilogy, by a wide margin. It's like how Stranger Things S01 (only one I watched) is a faithful representation of the 80s. To me that's enough to recommend it. Its like going back in time.
In some ways it's better than the trilogy, such as in how the Empire is portrayed as a competent bureaucracy.
The writing is mixed because there's not much of anything that's not relevant to the plot, but there's a lot that's not much relevant (like all the kid-Andor parts). Some great writing and some uninspired writing.
I’ve heard that. I guess my bitterness with Disney Star Wars and their usual current year stuff keeps me from watching. I loved the EU and while I still have some books to read it annoys me that Disney couldn’t even throw us a bone and allow it to continue and make it clear it wasn’t canon. But glad that Andor is so well liked. Someone who enjoyed it said there is one unnecessary lesbian scene but otherwise good. I agree about Stranger Things. Also, it was before the whole “season 1 is good and then show goes woke” happened. Season 3 was girl power and the stupidest example of adding a gay character for no reason
Andor is the most terminally reddited media I've ever seen
I felt all of season 2 had good bones (except the first arc, boring as an action show and had no political/spy thriller elements either), but severely suffered from time constraints and it definitely felt rushed. S1 is way better.