Lol is this gonna be a regular thing now? Weekly posts looking at a 20+ year old series through modern eyes and complaining about it, despite being to many fans the best Star Trek series with a ton of spectacular episodes? You're basically doing the same things as the wokists. They look back at some movie from the 90s and bitch about how 'problematic' it was, while you're looking back at something from that time and complaining about it being woke.
If anyone here wants an actual intelligent review of DS9, Raz0rfist has an ongoing series called 'Depths of DS9' where he spends about 45 minutes talking about each episode. He's almost done with Season 5 at this point. And he's pretty astute with his criticism, as he is with most things. No series is perfect. There are some missteps and dogshit episodes. Bar Association in particular comes to mind as one of the worst episodes IMO.
But these thread smacks of OP just not liking the show, so he's cherry picking little 3 or 4 minutes clips out of hundreds of hours to grind an axe. You wanna talk about Duet or The Visitor? Siege of AR-558? Hard Time? Sacrifice of Angels? Civil Defense? For the Uniform? Trials and Tribbliations?
It's ok not to like something. But your opinion is not objective fact. There are just as many people here who aren't woke who loved the show for good reasons. Sorry if you're big mad about that. Maybe you should go talk to Worf again...
Not really. Finishing up my re-watch and couldn't ignore a crooning Sisko dying on stage. He's such a windbag. It was probably his idea to get that singing bit included in that absolutely useless episode.
Are you just young or something? Do you not remember the days before modern '8 hour movies cut into 12 episodes' TV shows where a series had many one-off adventures or fun side episodes that aren't connected to the main plot? Your use of the term useless implies other episodes are useful. Useful to what? If the standard is in service to some overarching plot, then that's a faulty standard. TV wasn't made like that back then. Plenty of us in fact absolutely hate the fact that modern TV is just one long running plot with no fun side stories. That's like saying the SG-1 episode "Window of Opportunity" is 'useless' because it's not about the war with the Goa'uld. If you meant to imply that it's not enjoyable by calling it useless, well that's just like your opinion man. But really though, it is. Plenty of people had fun watching the crew just have a fun day doing a holographic heist plot. You didn't. Sorry about that. But that's a you problem, not a problem with the show.
Do you not remember the days before modern '8 hour movies cut into 12 episodes'
Tbf DS9 literally ends on a planned 8/9 episode run and is often remembered as being one of the first shows to move away from "monster/planet of the week" shows that always returned to the status quo by the end of the episode.
And yet, each episode in decisively not a segment of a much longer movie, ala the Stranger Things effect. They are all still self-contained episodes. It's not binary. A show doesn't have to be entirely episodic or entirely serialized. DS9 was a great blend of the two styles, where the world they existed in persisted and had consequences, with little use of the Voyager Magic Reset Button, but many/most of the episodes are still their own stories that can be watched in isolation. No one thinks so fondly of S01/E04 of Stranger Things and just goes back to watch only that. Or just the 3rd episode of Terminal List. People do still go back and watch singular episodes of DS9, from all of the seasons, despite them being part of an overall narrative.
That's like saying the SG-1 episode "Window of Opportunity" is 'useless' because it's not about the war with the Goa'uld.
A lot of people love that episode, myself included, despite it being a very obvious point in the show it went from serious to silly, even though it still then ends on a very serious note given what Jack says to the scientist about loss.
No need to get emotional about this middling Trek series. Everyone knows TNG is the gold standard.
Plenty of us in fact absolutely hate the fact that modern TV is just one long running plot with no fun side stories.
The operative word being 'fun'. No one would be interested in a 'holographic heist plot' when the production values are so low that they would eventually stoop to Avery strangling a cat on stage in order to fill up the contractually obligated time slot.
E.g. Nog being required to open a safe, while Odo the sentient goop could just slide in and open it for them. It was full of plot holes, the acting was something that you'd see in a Nickelodean show and the singing could be used to ward off Houthi pirates.
Consider the following: they actually had to schedule studio time with a music producer to record those vocals of Avery Brooks. And for what? So that Avery could promote his little side-gig?
Yeah with long running series like this, there are a least a few absolute trash episodes like this regardless of how great it is overall.
Usually it's because they needed a filler, a writers strike is happening or an actor for some reason can get there so need to buy time till they can return and then they can carry on the main plot.
so need to buy time till they can return and then they can carry on the main plot.
Some of the most acclaimed episodes in the later seasons have very, very few of the main cast. It's one of the things about DS9 that while there was the actual main cast that were billed in the opening the small army of secondary characters not only had more screentime than the main characters at times, but ended up being far more fan favourites, which was largely in part due to the actors involved.
Practically all of the episodes of the first half of the seventh season are filler, though. Really bad filler, at that. The one where they play baseball against a team of Vulcans? Or all those godawful Ezri episodes.
One of the funniest scenes was in episode 2, where an orb-maddened Sisko grabs his father and is shaking him. The resulting scene is slapstick ham. Surprised it wasn't turned into a gif. Hilariously hammy.
Practically all of the episodes of the first half of the seventh season are filler, though. Really bad filler, at that. The one where they play baseball against a team of Vulcans? Or all those godawful Ezri episodes.
Some of that comes from production problems.
Terry Farrell leaving meant any replacement character needed some kind of development and fast since there was only the 1 season left. Couple that with Ezri then being the following Dax host and it meant a crash course in getting to know everyone again from Ezri's POV along with the problems written in with her never actually intending to be Joined.
A lot of the Dax focused episodes from the previous seasons deal with the issues surrounding Joining for the Trill, one of the big ones being the suddenly near sublimation of the host self when occupying the same body with multiple other personalities and memories. Initiates spend years training and preparing to Join and many simply don't qualify because as another episode points out the potential number of hosts is significantly higher than the Trill government actually claims. Were the real numbers known it would swamp the application process and result in far more characters like Verad played by John Glover who briefly steals the Dax symbiote.
As an aside this is a personal bugbear about what Discovery then did where it had a human host for a symbiote, wokeness aside since the character was also non-binary because of course a host character to both male and female characters just happens to be non-binary 🙄, since this would very obviously mean various Trill were passed over to be the next host. Which would most likely result in a Trill civil war.
So with Ezri the template is flipped because she never went through any of that and was wholly unprepared, only becoming the Dax host by sheer luck as the sole Trill on the ship transporting the symbiote back to Trill after Jadzia died. Conceptually it was an interesting idea and one that only really works when something sudden as an existing character dies in a way Jadzia did rather than what most hosts probably did like with Curzon who went back to Trill when dying in order for the transplant to take place. The main differences being Jazdia had already died and at the hands of a Pah-Wraith empowered Dukat, so writing the host in distress could fit.
The death of Jadzia was so underwhelming that I had completely forgotten how she had died. Some sort of glowy, shaky death involving Dukat. Laugh-out-loud ridiculous. Most people disliked Ezri because she was there to replace Jadzia and no one knew why they fired her.
Racist super strong aliens! The entire crew of that ship were Vulcan which considering how the Federation is meant to work shouldn't be statistically possible.
SPOILERS FOR TAKE ME OUT TO THE HOLOSUITE (can we do spoiler tags here?)
Moreover, diversity was not their strength in that episode. Their ragtag band of diverse and lovable misfits, playing a game that has deep cultural significance for (at least some of) them, got absolutely rolled by a racially homogenous team, who just recently took up the sport as a minor diversion. Kind of unusual for Star Trek.
I watched some show called Z Nation. It was pretty interesting and stupid. Watchable. First 3 seasons were kinda good. Mostly taking a dude from new york to a lab in california as the loose goal, but there is "zombie of the week" kinda like how xfiles was with "monster of the week". Season 4 was confusing.. but season 5 was woke as hell. Season 5 had a dike character girl boss and a society where humans and talkers (dead that can talk, but can change to zombies) can live together. Blah blah blah democracy, rights, hate. They dedicate not one episode.. but entire season. Just spend 1/3 of every video preaching and lecturing.
Also.. every bad guy was white. But then again, almost everyone in the group is white and/or straight but with a girlboss black woman who was a mechanic in national guard. 2 shortlived light skinned hispanic. Most female chars arent too ugly. Gave the show a benefit of a doubt.. but season 5 was pretty. Apparentlt season 6 was being made but put on hold since covid. Anyways.. yeah what a pity.
Star trek was preachy too at times.. probably depends on who wrote that episode. Usually shows have different writers for every episode, even directors.
Never watched 'Z Nation' because the production values were even worse than the ones for 'The Walking Dead', but I can see why you would watch hate-fodder. Something you just love to hate.
The 'SyFy' channel really only churns out low-budget slop.
only thing i watched on sci-fi back then was stargate sg-1. first 3 seasons was alright. just the 5th season went from literally 0 to 60 in woke meter.
a Hologram program with a special matrix that made him being able to access the com system of the station.
Yes, and? The EMH and LMH were both designed to do that from the get go so someone else around the same time creating a hologram that can do the same thing isn't breaking any barriers, especially one designed to be aware he's an artificial lifeform in the first place.
Probably one of the worst episodes in the entire Trek universe
Even the worst episode pre May 13, 2005 is better than the "best" episodes of everything that came after it which includes Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, and whatever else they tried.
Conveniently Janeway's bloodlust was there from the start so a lack of a corpse means Tuvix "never happened" so no crime to worry about or episode needed to rewatch!
That's because you fail to realize that Sisko was an early woke exemplar and should be treated as part of the Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, etc. continuum.
Lol is this gonna be a regular thing now? Weekly posts looking at a 20+ year old series through modern eyes and complaining about it, despite being to many fans the best Star Trek series with a ton of spectacular episodes? You're basically doing the same things as the wokists. They look back at some movie from the 90s and bitch about how 'problematic' it was, while you're looking back at something from that time and complaining about it being woke.
If anyone here wants an actual intelligent review of DS9, Raz0rfist has an ongoing series called 'Depths of DS9' where he spends about 45 minutes talking about each episode. He's almost done with Season 5 at this point. And he's pretty astute with his criticism, as he is with most things. No series is perfect. There are some missteps and dogshit episodes. Bar Association in particular comes to mind as one of the worst episodes IMO.
But these thread smacks of OP just not liking the show, so he's cherry picking little 3 or 4 minutes clips out of hundreds of hours to grind an axe. You wanna talk about Duet or The Visitor? Siege of AR-558? Hard Time? Sacrifice of Angels? Civil Defense? For the Uniform? Trials and Tribbliations?
It's ok not to like something. But your opinion is not objective fact. There are just as many people here who aren't woke who loved the show for good reasons. Sorry if you're big mad about that. Maybe you should go talk to Worf again...
Not really. Finishing up my re-watch and couldn't ignore a crooning Sisko dying on stage. He's such a windbag. It was probably his idea to get that singing bit included in that absolutely useless episode.
Are you just young or something? Do you not remember the days before modern '8 hour movies cut into 12 episodes' TV shows where a series had many one-off adventures or fun side episodes that aren't connected to the main plot? Your use of the term useless implies other episodes are useful. Useful to what? If the standard is in service to some overarching plot, then that's a faulty standard. TV wasn't made like that back then. Plenty of us in fact absolutely hate the fact that modern TV is just one long running plot with no fun side stories. That's like saying the SG-1 episode "Window of Opportunity" is 'useless' because it's not about the war with the Goa'uld. If you meant to imply that it's not enjoyable by calling it useless, well that's just like your opinion man. But really though, it is. Plenty of people had fun watching the crew just have a fun day doing a holographic heist plot. You didn't. Sorry about that. But that's a you problem, not a problem with the show.
Tbf DS9 literally ends on a planned 8/9 episode run and is often remembered as being one of the first shows to move away from "monster/planet of the week" shows that always returned to the status quo by the end of the episode.
And yet, each episode in decisively not a segment of a much longer movie, ala the Stranger Things effect. They are all still self-contained episodes. It's not binary. A show doesn't have to be entirely episodic or entirely serialized. DS9 was a great blend of the two styles, where the world they existed in persisted and had consequences, with little use of the Voyager Magic Reset Button, but many/most of the episodes are still their own stories that can be watched in isolation. No one thinks so fondly of S01/E04 of Stranger Things and just goes back to watch only that. Or just the 3rd episode of Terminal List. People do still go back and watch singular episodes of DS9, from all of the seasons, despite them being part of an overall narrative.
A lot of people love that episode, myself included, despite it being a very obvious point in the show it went from serious to silly, even though it still then ends on a very serious note given what Jack says to the scientist about loss.
No need to get emotional about this middling Trek series. Everyone knows TNG is the gold standard.
The operative word being 'fun'. No one would be interested in a 'holographic heist plot' when the production values are so low that they would eventually stoop to Avery strangling a cat on stage in order to fill up the contractually obligated time slot.
E.g. Nog being required to open a safe, while Odo the sentient goop could just slide in and open it for them. It was full of plot holes, the acting was something that you'd see in a Nickelodean show and the singing could be used to ward off Houthi pirates.
You aren't interested in it. You do not get to speak for everyone else.
Consider the following: they actually had to schedule studio time with a music producer to record those vocals of Avery Brooks. And for what? So that Avery could promote his little side-gig?
Know your audience. Arguing here that DS9 is a shit Trek series is like telling theatre kids that Buffy is just more Dross Whedon garbage.
There's only a few good men here that can handle the truth.
Yeah with long running series like this, there are a least a few absolute trash episodes like this regardless of how great it is overall.
Usually it's because they needed a filler, a writers strike is happening or an actor for some reason can get there so need to buy time till they can return and then they can carry on the main plot.
Some of the most acclaimed episodes in the later seasons have very, very few of the main cast. It's one of the things about DS9 that while there was the actual main cast that were billed in the opening the small army of secondary characters not only had more screentime than the main characters at times, but ended up being far more fan favourites, which was largely in part due to the actors involved.
Practically all of the episodes of the first half of the seventh season are filler, though. Really bad filler, at that. The one where they play baseball against a team of Vulcans? Or all those godawful Ezri episodes.
One of the funniest scenes was in episode 2, where an orb-maddened Sisko grabs his father and is shaking him. The resulting scene is slapstick ham. Surprised it wasn't turned into a gif. Hilariously hammy.
Avery really is a bad actor.
Some of that comes from production problems.
Terry Farrell leaving meant any replacement character needed some kind of development and fast since there was only the 1 season left. Couple that with Ezri then being the following Dax host and it meant a crash course in getting to know everyone again from Ezri's POV along with the problems written in with her never actually intending to be Joined.
A lot of the Dax focused episodes from the previous seasons deal with the issues surrounding Joining for the Trill, one of the big ones being the suddenly near sublimation of the host self when occupying the same body with multiple other personalities and memories. Initiates spend years training and preparing to Join and many simply don't qualify because as another episode points out the potential number of hosts is significantly higher than the Trill government actually claims. Were the real numbers known it would swamp the application process and result in far more characters like Verad played by John Glover who briefly steals the Dax symbiote.
As an aside this is a personal bugbear about what Discovery then did where it had a human host for a symbiote, wokeness aside since the character was also non-binary because of course a host character to both male and female characters just happens to be non-binary 🙄, since this would very obviously mean various Trill were passed over to be the next host. Which would most likely result in a Trill civil war.
So with Ezri the template is flipped because she never went through any of that and was wholly unprepared, only becoming the Dax host by sheer luck as the sole Trill on the ship transporting the symbiote back to Trill after Jadzia died. Conceptually it was an interesting idea and one that only really works when something sudden as an existing character dies in a way Jadzia did rather than what most hosts probably did like with Curzon who went back to Trill when dying in order for the transplant to take place. The main differences being Jazdia had already died and at the hands of a Pah-Wraith empowered Dukat, so writing the host in distress could fit.
I think there were two Trill serving on that ship, but one of them got killed.
The death of Jadzia was so underwhelming that I had completely forgotten how she had died. Some sort of glowy, shaky death involving Dukat. Laugh-out-loud ridiculous. Most people disliked Ezri because she was there to replace Jadzia and no one knew why they fired her.
Take Me Out to the Holosuite is a highly entertaining episode, and I won't stand for you besmirching it!
You tune in for science fiction and get handed this two-bit sixties melodrama on stilts.
Oh, I'm not defending the episode in the OP. I'm defending the amusing holodeck competition against super strong aliens.
Racist super strong aliens! The entire crew of that ship were Vulcan which considering how the Federation is meant to work shouldn't be statistically possible.
SPOILERS FOR TAKE ME OUT TO THE HOLOSUITE (can we do spoiler tags here?)
Moreover, diversity was not their strength in that episode. Their ragtag band of diverse and lovable misfits, playing a game that has deep cultural significance for (at least some of) them, got absolutely rolled by a racially homogenous team, who just recently took up the sport as a minor diversion. Kind of unusual for Star Trek.
ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS
You aren't even aware of what the term 'filler' actually means.
;)
He has such a strange cadence. I did like the baseball episode though. All that stupid religious stuff was terrible.
I watched some show called Z Nation. It was pretty interesting and stupid. Watchable. First 3 seasons were kinda good. Mostly taking a dude from new york to a lab in california as the loose goal, but there is "zombie of the week" kinda like how xfiles was with "monster of the week". Season 4 was confusing.. but season 5 was woke as hell. Season 5 had a dike character girl boss and a society where humans and talkers (dead that can talk, but can change to zombies) can live together. Blah blah blah democracy, rights, hate. They dedicate not one episode.. but entire season. Just spend 1/3 of every video preaching and lecturing.
Also.. every bad guy was white. But then again, almost everyone in the group is white and/or straight but with a girlboss black woman who was a mechanic in national guard. 2 shortlived light skinned hispanic. Most female chars arent too ugly. Gave the show a benefit of a doubt.. but season 5 was pretty. Apparentlt season 6 was being made but put on hold since covid. Anyways.. yeah what a pity.
Star trek was preachy too at times.. probably depends on who wrote that episode. Usually shows have different writers for every episode, even directors.
Never watched 'Z Nation' because the production values were even worse than the ones for 'The Walking Dead', but I can see why you would watch hate-fodder. Something you just love to hate.
The 'SyFy' channel really only churns out low-budget slop.
only thing i watched on sci-fi back then was stargate sg-1. first 3 seasons was alright. just the 5th season went from literally 0 to 60 in woke meter.
Does it involve the jazz singer the fused into the show even thought it doesn’t fit in anyway shape or forum?
Supposedly a Hologram program with a special matrix that made him being able to access the com system of the station.
Yes, and? The EMH and LMH were both designed to do that from the get go so someone else around the same time creating a hologram that can do the same thing isn't breaking any barriers, especially one designed to be aware he's an artificial lifeform in the first place.
Probably one of the worst episodes in the entire Trek universe. Just filler with a cherry of absolute cringe on top.
Even the worst episode pre May 13, 2005 is better than the "best" episodes of everything that came after it which includes Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, and whatever else they tried.
You can imagine how pissed off Neelix is on this fact.
Conveniently Janeway's bloodlust was there from the start so a lack of a corpse means Tuvix "never happened" so no crime to worry about or episode needed to rewatch!
That's because you fail to realize that Sisko was an early woke exemplar and should be treated as part of the Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, etc. continuum.
Man I don't know how you can say that when there are so many bad episodes of Trek to choose from even in TNG.
None of them have Sisko trying to promote himself as a singer for his side-gig and failing miserably at it.