I kind of wish it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, it makes logical sense given the reality on the ground but it's also a very defeatist attitude. "Just don't bother because we have given up trying to figure out how to fix the problem."
I think you have a misunderstanding of MGTOW. Most of the guys are saying you should give up trying to date women because the way the game works is setup such that you're going to fail as a man. Women are just not worth your time. However, fixing society is still something MGTOW men are interested in but most men have no power to fix anything. In fact, boycotting women is often the only power move men have and if enough men stopped dating women altogether you might actually start getting changes to society.
Not only is not dating women a direct bargaining chip, but fear of becoming undatable via the whisper network seems to keep a lot of men from really voicing their minds and properly fighting back with all the shit women get up to when they band together.
Once that fear is gone maybe more guys will find their spines again.
I consumed their content for several years in the past. I don't misunderstand them, they're simply dead wrong about abstaining from women being a solution to anything.
How so? I feel like a lot of people are discussing birth rates as a problem to the sustainability of society. Elon Musk talks about it. Some politicians like DeSantis touches on it. As birth rates do continue to plummet and while immigration is not popular, people will start trying to tackle the birth rate problem. The more men who are checked out of the system completely, the harder it'll be to find a solution so the more extreme people will go toward creating a solution and typically, the way the solutions will go will be to oppress men more which will actually exasperate the problem until there is a breakdown in civilization which would allow for men to reestablish a patriarchy from the ashes of civilization.
IMO anyhow, there is no solution without completely tearing down civilization today as we know it. A solution within the system can never be had, ever. We've gone too far that the only potential path up is to tear it all down and start new.
Which isn't really a solution, it's losing the game and then bringing in a new set of players for the next game.
It also appears to be the go-to "answer" for a lot of the problems we're facing today.
"Oh just wait until civilization collapses and then we'll just create our utopia afterwards." It's not problem solving. It's wishful thinking.
I see MGTOW as recognizing both the biological limitations of women, and the societal institutions set up to advance their interests at the expense of men. Nothing can change biology, but by saying "I'm out until you fix your shit" you can possibly incentivize society to change. And if it doesn't, so be it- at least you're not playing a losing game.
Men's rights groups have tried working within the system to change it and failed. Your remaining choices are to submit and become an ATM for some woman, or walk away.
I don't know of a solution, which is part of my frustration with the refusal to brainstorm.
You can't change biology, but women are still super malleable to social pressures, so any long term fix is going to involve re-establishing social pressures to guide their behavior. There's a reason every single society going back thousands of years has placed strict restrictions on female sexuality and just done a whole lot to put in guard rails to mitigate the damage of hysterical women.
This however:
Nothing can change biology, but by saying "I'm out until you fix your shit" you can possibly incentivize society to change.
is just retarded. Women aren't going to self correct. That's you sitting in a corner pouting like a child. External pressures are the only thing that's going to correct women's behaviors, whether that be civilization collapsing or some other force that we devise to prevent the need for that approach. If you don't want to make an effort to figure out what the fix is then so be it, but don't sit here and pretend like you giving up is anything other than that. You're not fixing the problem, you're not incentivizing women to change what they're doing. You're giving up and walking away from the situation. Nothing more and nothing less.
So yeah, my proposal for fixing this is hijack the societal brainwashing apparatus and recalibrate it to call whores bad people again and praise women who are loyal. That's the bare minimum I see as having any hope of influencing women's behavior. We all know normies can be programmed and women are basically all normies.
I kind of wish it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, it makes logical sense given the reality on the ground but it's also a very defeatist attitude. "Just don't bother because we have given up trying to figure out how to fix the problem."
I think you have a misunderstanding of MGTOW. Most of the guys are saying you should give up trying to date women because the way the game works is setup such that you're going to fail as a man. Women are just not worth your time. However, fixing society is still something MGTOW men are interested in but most men have no power to fix anything. In fact, boycotting women is often the only power move men have and if enough men stopped dating women altogether you might actually start getting changes to society.
Not only is not dating women a direct bargaining chip, but fear of becoming undatable via the whisper network seems to keep a lot of men from really voicing their minds and properly fighting back with all the shit women get up to when they band together.
Once that fear is gone maybe more guys will find their spines again.
I consumed their content for several years in the past. I don't misunderstand them, they're simply dead wrong about abstaining from women being a solution to anything.
How so? I feel like a lot of people are discussing birth rates as a problem to the sustainability of society. Elon Musk talks about it. Some politicians like DeSantis touches on it. As birth rates do continue to plummet and while immigration is not popular, people will start trying to tackle the birth rate problem. The more men who are checked out of the system completely, the harder it'll be to find a solution so the more extreme people will go toward creating a solution and typically, the way the solutions will go will be to oppress men more which will actually exasperate the problem until there is a breakdown in civilization which would allow for men to reestablish a patriarchy from the ashes of civilization.
IMO anyhow, there is no solution without completely tearing down civilization today as we know it. A solution within the system can never be had, ever. We've gone too far that the only potential path up is to tear it all down and start new.
Which isn't really a solution, it's losing the game and then bringing in a new set of players for the next game.
It also appears to be the go-to "answer" for a lot of the problems we're facing today. "Oh just wait until civilization collapses and then we'll just create our utopia afterwards." It's not problem solving. It's wishful thinking.
So then what's your proposed solution?
I see MGTOW as recognizing both the biological limitations of women, and the societal institutions set up to advance their interests at the expense of men. Nothing can change biology, but by saying "I'm out until you fix your shit" you can possibly incentivize society to change. And if it doesn't, so be it- at least you're not playing a losing game.
Men's rights groups have tried working within the system to change it and failed. Your remaining choices are to submit and become an ATM for some woman, or walk away.
I don't know of a solution, which is part of my frustration with the refusal to brainstorm.
You can't change biology, but women are still super malleable to social pressures, so any long term fix is going to involve re-establishing social pressures to guide their behavior. There's a reason every single society going back thousands of years has placed strict restrictions on female sexuality and just done a whole lot to put in guard rails to mitigate the damage of hysterical women.
This however:
is just retarded. Women aren't going to self correct. That's you sitting in a corner pouting like a child. External pressures are the only thing that's going to correct women's behaviors, whether that be civilization collapsing or some other force that we devise to prevent the need for that approach. If you don't want to make an effort to figure out what the fix is then so be it, but don't sit here and pretend like you giving up is anything other than that. You're not fixing the problem, you're not incentivizing women to change what they're doing. You're giving up and walking away from the situation. Nothing more and nothing less.
So yeah, my proposal for fixing this is hijack the societal brainwashing apparatus and recalibrate it to call whores bad people again and praise women who are loyal. That's the bare minimum I see as having any hope of influencing women's behavior. We all know normies can be programmed and women are basically all normies.