When numbnuts normies ask me the "what about muh socialization" question, I usually respond with asking what about the retarded monkey cage that is public school, that they think is actually useful for children to be subjected to.
Thus far I have yet to get a specific response. Not that I was earnestly soliciting their opinion anyway.
I completely agree. There is nothing healthy about learning social skills from teenagers, who learnt it from teenagers, who learnt it from teenagers. What they need to learn is how to talk to and behave around adults. Earn their respect and be introduced intro adult groups. It's how we're evolved and its how society worked for millennia. Older kids looking after and supervising the youngins, develops skills for motherhood. The boys gradually being welcomed along to adult work, as apprentices, and learning to behave and socialise in the way that they'll need to do for the rest of their lives, with other men, and earning their respect. From tribal groups to apprenticeships, its never teens just learning from other teens. That's retarded.
High School is the most toxic and pathological social environment a child can be in besides prison. It will be one of the few times in life where people will experience rabid authoritarianism, significant physical violence, and aggressive social ostracism.
The military is a wildly more appropriate social environment for children than public school.
Anyone who disagrees is a fucking liar or a fucking perpatrator.
That was elementary school for me. High school, I didn't socialize much with kids there at all, except for a couple of other outcasts (one had a funny name, and the other was dying of CF.) I had cadets, though.\ (which also exposed us to socializing with WWI and II vets.)
They did, but keep in mind their stories had nothing to do with combat. Not because we were kids, but because ... they preferred to talk about the friends they remembered like yesterday, and the little bit of enjoyable time they had.
I was taught to NEVER pry war vets with questions; just let them talk as they will. I had a great uncle who was ... touchy.
I don't pry, but I do want to know. It helps as a veteran because people really don't know what it was like, and every veteran has a story.
Some of my marines and I were on a training in a very rural area once in the US. Those marines were from Puerto Rico, and they were initially very scared about hanging out in rural America with white people because of Leftist propaganda. I mocked them a bit for it, and they calmed down, and began to enjoy the pleasantries of a rural American diner (classic 50 year old woman as a waitress who calls you 'honey', with a dirty chef in the kitchen cooking the best bacon & eggs you can imagine).
As we left the diner, an old man came up to us and thanked us for our service, and asked us what we were all here for. We told him we were here for training, and someone asked him if he served. He clearly had because he was wearing a typical veteran's baseball cap: the black hat with gold & white lettering indicating operations or missions they'd been on. When I read it, I was shocked, but nobody else seemed to know what it meant. His hat said: "Operation Shingle".
I told him we thanked him for his service because he paved the way for us. But I did have a follow-up question.
"Sir, were you at Anzio?"
He gave a solemn "Yes." and walked away.
The marines around me asked, "What's Anzio?"
I told them: "That man has seen more shit than you will ever see in your life. He's a hero."
One day we'll lose these veterans, and we won't have heard their stories. No one will ever understand what it was like on those days, except for you, your comrades in arms, and the enemy who was shooting at you.
If you want to know about the battle in specific detail, Sabaton covers it in "To Hell And Back", while Pink Floyd covered it in "When The Tigers Broke Free". To Summarize, it was an amphibious attack in Italy that nearly failed. Allied forces were stuck on an exposed beach-head for weeks as they were bombarded by artillery, strafed by the Luftwaffe, and even hit with full-on armored assaults. Repelling a tank rush without anti-tank weapons is difficult, so you can imagine how hard they had it.
I fucking HATED high school. Being forced to sit in a chair at a tiny desk for hours at a time listening to some midwit drone on about a subject I had little interest in, and all so I could have lunch one hour before the school day ended. Who the fuck wants to do geometry at 8:30 in the morning? Sure, my eyes were open, but I wasn't actually awake until at least 11.
That isn't even getting into the bullying, trying to figure out how to talk to girls, the stress of my parents expectations, and of course trying to get into a good college.
The cherry on top is that the high school used to be an actual prison from what I remember.
Honestly, adults were poorly socialized by school.
Most modern adults find it difficult to socialize as adults, because all the socialization they ever had was in school. As such, they don't actually know how to go looking for social environments outside of a bar.
They have no idea how to build social clubs, or how to join any. This is the consequence of socializing entire generations through public schooling. The kids need to learn how to socialize like adults, rather than as public school inmates. The problem is that the parents don't know either.
It's like how I see idiots saying "other animals don't teach each other". Of course they do. And they'll claim this, while at the same time describing how young chimps will sit around and watch an adult chimp do something, and then they'll do it, too. Anyone who says that ALLOWING the young to watch isn't teaching has never been taught a skill by a fucking redneck who tells you to just shut up and fucking watch.
I'm certain these uppity fucks expect non-humans to erect classrooms and to go around checking things like modern teachers do. Sorry, sweaty, that ain't how HUMAN teaching was always done, either. Apprentices learned as they went, and that's why they spent their first few years hauling water and sweeping floors.
Kids socialize by getting out and playing with other kids, and learning to be around adults. Not by sitting in a classroom being lectured at all day.
Very refreshing to hear this from other people. I've been saying this for years. Normies can't fathom an alternative working system to the shit show prescribed to them
I've had this conversation of the pros and cons of homeschooling with many people over the years. It is always adults leveraging this complaint, and it is always "social skills" as the singular point of contention they bring. The most ridiculous this ever got was a stranger I met in a department store while we were both applying for a job. I was in my teens, she was in her 50s. The more she learned, the longer the conversation went, the more adamantly she asserted that a child is crippled by being 'excluded' from the 'necessary' experience of public school.
She's talking to me. The reason she's talking to me is that I have told her that I was homeschooled. The complaint she is making is that a person like me is definitely "socially crippled" and unable to interact with the real world. She is making this declaration in a conversation with me, the nearest example of what she is talking about. I don't know how blind to irony you can actually be, but I refer to this interaction as a high bar.
Of course the reason she and others like her raise this complaint is because that is the narrative they have absorbed. When I was coming up in the 80s and 90s there was a LOT of pressure to quit. Examples in media were always negative, special news reports regularly referred to "the new homeschooling fad" as something dangerous and scary, and the institutions themselves actively fought you constantly for daring to not be on the treadmill they had designed all of their policies around.
On the other hand. I have spoken to kids as well. My peers growing up and school-age kids since. Not a single time has any of them responded with dismay. They are often bewildered, that there is another way than the one they are experiencing. But they are generally, with few exceptions, envious. And I take their responses far more seriously than the old lady competing with me for a minimum wage position at the mall. There is a world-weariness brought by age, but there is one brought by first-hand recent experience, and I think the latter knows far more about how it goes down on the farm despite how young he may be.
My son regularly mixes with younger kids, kids his age, older kids, Gen Zers, Millennials, Gen Xers and members of the Silent Generation (he’s a little low on Boomers for some reason).
That made me think of what friends I had in school. I almost never had actual good friends my age at any point in my life. I consider that age segregation a factor to why I was so weird and quiet in elementary school age especially. Even now, my two best friends are 11 years older and 11 years younger than me. School age, what I remember positively more than friends are adults who gave me the time of day and would treat me like a person. (definitely were not teachers) My cousin is middle school age and homeschooled and has more good friends around his age than I did that age by far, despite not being forced around them all the time. It happens organically. He's also basically a friend with me in a lot of ways as he's never had beaten into his head that friends should only have been born +- 6 months of him. Cramming kids in a group of people their age and not really ever being around anyone else is not social development at all, I'd argue it's socially stunting.
The author seems upper-middle class, but any family who lives within their means can achieve this. Now if the state would stop incentivizing dumb families.
I don't trust many private schools to be substantially better than public schools. Same flawed authoritarian and artificial premises; lousy parents, teachers, and admin that squanders students' potential. Shared educational facilities for difficult subjects make more sense than 6.5-10 hour days caged to a desk.
When numbnuts normies ask me the "what about muh socialization" question, I usually respond with asking what about the retarded monkey cage that is public school, that they think is actually useful for children to be subjected to.
Thus far I have yet to get a specific response. Not that I was earnestly soliciting their opinion anyway.
I completely agree. There is nothing healthy about learning social skills from teenagers, who learnt it from teenagers, who learnt it from teenagers. What they need to learn is how to talk to and behave around adults. Earn their respect and be introduced intro adult groups. It's how we're evolved and its how society worked for millennia. Older kids looking after and supervising the youngins, develops skills for motherhood. The boys gradually being welcomed along to adult work, as apprentices, and learning to behave and socialise in the way that they'll need to do for the rest of their lives, with other men, and earning their respect. From tribal groups to apprenticeships, its never teens just learning from other teens. That's retarded.
High School is the most toxic and pathological social environment a child can be in besides prison. It will be one of the few times in life where people will experience rabid authoritarianism, significant physical violence, and aggressive social ostracism.
The military is a wildly more appropriate social environment for children than public school.
Anyone who disagrees is a fucking liar or a fucking perpatrator.
That was elementary school for me. High school, I didn't socialize much with kids there at all, except for a couple of other outcasts (one had a funny name, and the other was dying of CF.) I had cadets, though.\ (which also exposed us to socializing with WWI and II vets.)
Those vets must have had some fuckin' stories.
They did, but keep in mind their stories had nothing to do with combat. Not because we were kids, but because ... they preferred to talk about the friends they remembered like yesterday, and the little bit of enjoyable time they had.
I was taught to NEVER pry war vets with questions; just let them talk as they will. I had a great uncle who was ... touchy.
I don't pry, but I do want to know. It helps as a veteran because people really don't know what it was like, and every veteran has a story.
Some of my marines and I were on a training in a very rural area once in the US. Those marines were from Puerto Rico, and they were initially very scared about hanging out in rural America with white people because of Leftist propaganda. I mocked them a bit for it, and they calmed down, and began to enjoy the pleasantries of a rural American diner (classic 50 year old woman as a waitress who calls you 'honey', with a dirty chef in the kitchen cooking the best bacon & eggs you can imagine).
As we left the diner, an old man came up to us and thanked us for our service, and asked us what we were all here for. We told him we were here for training, and someone asked him if he served. He clearly had because he was wearing a typical veteran's baseball cap: the black hat with gold & white lettering indicating operations or missions they'd been on. When I read it, I was shocked, but nobody else seemed to know what it meant. His hat said: "Operation Shingle".
I told him we thanked him for his service because he paved the way for us. But I did have a follow-up question.
"Sir, were you at Anzio?"
He gave a solemn "Yes." and walked away.
The marines around me asked, "What's Anzio?"
I told them: "That man has seen more shit than you will ever see in your life. He's a hero."
One day we'll lose these veterans, and we won't have heard their stories. No one will ever understand what it was like on those days, except for you, your comrades in arms, and the enemy who was shooting at you.
If you want to know about the battle in specific detail, Sabaton covers it in "To Hell And Back", while Pink Floyd covered it in "When The Tigers Broke Free". To Summarize, it was an amphibious attack in Italy that nearly failed. Allied forces were stuck on an exposed beach-head for weeks as they were bombarded by artillery, strafed by the Luftwaffe, and even hit with full-on armored assaults. Repelling a tank rush without anti-tank weapons is difficult, so you can imagine how hard they had it.
I fucking HATED high school. Being forced to sit in a chair at a tiny desk for hours at a time listening to some midwit drone on about a subject I had little interest in, and all so I could have lunch one hour before the school day ended. Who the fuck wants to do geometry at 8:30 in the morning? Sure, my eyes were open, but I wasn't actually awake until at least 11.
That isn't even getting into the bullying, trying to figure out how to talk to girls, the stress of my parents expectations, and of course trying to get into a good college.
The cherry on top is that the high school used to be an actual prison from what I remember.
The worst part is that the kids who want to do Geometry at 8:30 in the morning, should be in a place better than highschool.
Offices then use the same politics to make it even worse. It just takes 20 years to become a senior.
Honestly, adults were poorly socialized by school.
Most modern adults find it difficult to socialize as adults, because all the socialization they ever had was in school. As such, they don't actually know how to go looking for social environments outside of a bar.
They have no idea how to build social clubs, or how to join any. This is the consequence of socializing entire generations through public schooling. The kids need to learn how to socialize like adults, rather than as public school inmates. The problem is that the parents don't know either.
It's like how I see idiots saying "other animals don't teach each other". Of course they do. And they'll claim this, while at the same time describing how young chimps will sit around and watch an adult chimp do something, and then they'll do it, too. Anyone who says that ALLOWING the young to watch isn't teaching has never been taught a skill by a fucking redneck who tells you to just shut up and fucking watch.
I'm certain these uppity fucks expect non-humans to erect classrooms and to go around checking things like modern teachers do. Sorry, sweaty, that ain't how HUMAN teaching was always done, either. Apprentices learned as they went, and that's why they spent their first few years hauling water and sweeping floors.
Kids socialize by getting out and playing with other kids, and learning to be around adults. Not by sitting in a classroom being lectured at all day.
Very refreshing to hear this from other people. I've been saying this for years. Normies can't fathom an alternative working system to the shit show prescribed to them
It seems almost purposeful. They have been blinded from any other option by the very system designed to control and shape them.
I've had this conversation of the pros and cons of homeschooling with many people over the years. It is always adults leveraging this complaint, and it is always "social skills" as the singular point of contention they bring. The most ridiculous this ever got was a stranger I met in a department store while we were both applying for a job. I was in my teens, she was in her 50s. The more she learned, the longer the conversation went, the more adamantly she asserted that a child is crippled by being 'excluded' from the 'necessary' experience of public school.
She's talking to me. The reason she's talking to me is that I have told her that I was homeschooled. The complaint she is making is that a person like me is definitely "socially crippled" and unable to interact with the real world. She is making this declaration in a conversation with me, the nearest example of what she is talking about. I don't know how blind to irony you can actually be, but I refer to this interaction as a high bar.
Of course the reason she and others like her raise this complaint is because that is the narrative they have absorbed. When I was coming up in the 80s and 90s there was a LOT of pressure to quit. Examples in media were always negative, special news reports regularly referred to "the new homeschooling fad" as something dangerous and scary, and the institutions themselves actively fought you constantly for daring to not be on the treadmill they had designed all of their policies around.
On the other hand. I have spoken to kids as well. My peers growing up and school-age kids since. Not a single time has any of them responded with dismay. They are often bewildered, that there is another way than the one they are experiencing. But they are generally, with few exceptions, envious. And I take their responses far more seriously than the old lady competing with me for a minimum wage position at the mall. There is a world-weariness brought by age, but there is one brought by first-hand recent experience, and I think the latter knows far more about how it goes down on the farm despite how young he may be.
That made me think of what friends I had in school. I almost never had actual good friends my age at any point in my life. I consider that age segregation a factor to why I was so weird and quiet in elementary school age especially. Even now, my two best friends are 11 years older and 11 years younger than me. School age, what I remember positively more than friends are adults who gave me the time of day and would treat me like a person. (definitely were not teachers) My cousin is middle school age and homeschooled and has more good friends around his age than I did that age by far, despite not being forced around them all the time. It happens organically. He's also basically a friend with me in a lot of ways as he's never had beaten into his head that friends should only have been born +- 6 months of him. Cramming kids in a group of people their age and not really ever being around anyone else is not social development at all, I'd argue it's socially stunting.
The author seems upper-middle class, but any family who lives within their means can achieve this. Now if the state would stop incentivizing dumb families.
I don't trust many private schools to be substantially better than public schools. Same flawed authoritarian and artificial premises; lousy parents, teachers, and admin that squanders students' potential. Shared educational facilities for difficult subjects make more sense than 6.5-10 hour days caged to a desk.