Elon torches Gary Kasparov
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Honest question, does anybody in the West even know what a "win" for Ukraine even looks like at this point?
I'm serious, what are our objectives here? Restore Ukraine to her 2014 borders? Her 1991 borders - that involves retaking Crimea and assaulting a Russian naval base? The total destruction of Russia as a military power?
I'm asking because at the moment the West's objective appears to be the latter, no matter the cost in Ukrainian lives or territory - and I'm not sure the people of Ukraine would pick that one if they were given any choice at all in the matter.
There isn’t supposed to be a “win”; from the point of view of the American neo-cons steering us into this mess, it’s about cultivating another never-ending conflict they can use to launder money with. They had to get something rolling after they lost their gig in Afghanistan.
That's pretty much why I asked that question. Unending war, for the sole purpose of propping up Raytheon, is a tough sell, electorally.
Yes, very obviously:
Russia throws in the towel and agreed to pull out on terms Ukraine agrees to.
Ukraine drives the Russians out of Ukrainian territory through military force despite Russia's best efforts to stop them.
Simple as.
Defendant the innocent and the righteous against an evil, imperialistic aggressor.
Ukrainian naval base, temporarily occupied by Russia. And Ukraine has already hit it with missiles, so idk why you're pretending it's shocking to attack it.
That's pretty much already happened by this point. Russia is losing to UKRAINE, one of the poorest countries in Europe. Pretty sure the Baltic states could take Russia 1v1 at this point.
You don't care what Ukraine wants. Ukraine wants to fight and win. And it is entirely up to them. The West has no say, except to threaten to cut Ukraine off, which isn't going to happen.
OK, firstly, lobbing munitions at a naval base is not the same thing as retaking it from the invaders. One's liable to draw a rather more considerable response than the other, especially with how uncertain things are regarding Russian leadership at the moment.
Also, Russia is losing to a Ukraine that's being gifted vast quantities of munitions and training, courtesy of your taxes and mine. Ukraine might well be the poorest country in Europe; her army enjoys access to very expensive toys.
Lastly, you're right, I don't care what Ukraine wants. I care about being made to pay for it, whether I want to or not. Or, more realistically, I care because my children will end up paying for this.
Russia is already "responding" as hard as it can, and yet it's still getting its ass kicked. It's not like Ukraine cares about making Russia "mad". Bombing the Kerch bridge made Russia launch maximum escalation and retaliation. So it's already happening. Russia can't do more.
The only reason it isn't using nukes is because the rest of the world would assfuck Russia to oblivion if it did, so the Russians are making a risk/reward calculus like Hitler did with chemical weapons and not using them.
The total amount of military aid to Ukraine is something like $10b. Meanwhile Ukraine's total military budget was $6b versus Russia at $70b. Russia still enjoys a huge budget advantage even with the aid, and yet it's still losing badly.
not really. HIMARS isn't even considered expensive or high tech. It's just the STANDARD US rocket artillery. The "expensive toys" for the US are aircraft.
The money given to Ukraine of 10-20b is a tiny fraction of biden's total spending of $7t, representing something like 0.2%.
Where are your posts whining about the other 99.8%? Funny how suddenly fiscal conservatism only comes roaring out with Ukraine but not anything else.
OK, for starters, as a Brit I'm merely aghast at US federal spending rather than being directly affected by it; for seconds, what makes you think my antipathy is restricted to the matter of Ukraine?
Your own biases, and only these, have lead you to this conclusion about me. They are in error.
Tell that to all the ukrainian citizens conscripted for trying to leave to avoud a war they didn't want.
Ukraine post 2014 is a CIA puppet, and the citizens are being sacrificed to enrich the MIC and politicians.
The Ukrainian government took actions that make no logical sense without that being the rationale. Threatening Russia and cutting off water to Crimea were idiotic moves if that government was interested in preserving the Ukrainian people.
Putinbot Derangement Syndrome.
I see you have no actual reply. Nothing I said was pro russia. It was anti-war, and opposing the actions the ukrainian government took that were deliberate provications of an enemy with the capability and lack of care about collateral to destroy them.
It was either retarded, or deliberate. And assuming globalists do retarded shit instead of seeing their reasoning is how things got this bad everywhere.
Currently, liberating ever last inch of Ukraine in 1991 borders, end of Putin, war criminal trials (ICC), and the reparations from Russia. The possible implosion of Russia may just come along (and in which case Ukraine will likely want to take some too).
It's not "West's objective", it's their objective.
I see you people don't understand this, and I'm going to explain this to you as to hopefully comprehend.
You probably won't be able to find any nation more nationalistic than the Ukrainians, not in Europe at least. Ukrainian nationalism (often called "ultranationalism" and correctly so) is just incredibly hardcore and total, it's their actual religion besides their other religions (and they're extremely religious). The red and blue colors you may often see mean literally "Blood & Soil" (Ukraine's black earth).
Russians know who they fight, this is why they say "ukrainskiye natsionalisty" (and variants, many pejorative or sensationalist, as with the popular "Ukronatzisty" - the word "Nazism" itself is a neologism in Russia that was imported from the West only starting in the 1990s).
Croatian nationalism is kinda similar even if not that extreme, and they did take all of Croatia. And then they went down to Bosnia to quickly smash the Serbs also there, because of the Bosnian Croats living in Herzegovina.
Every single time I read this line I just hear Jackie Earle Haley saying "I'm not trapped in here with you..."
More seriously, if accurate, this sounds like a Ukrainian counter-attack and conquest of Russia. I'm not sure why I would even want to fund that.
The good news is, you don't get a choice!
Now less than ever, with
Klaus SchwabRishi Sunak running my country...Oooh, thats a good one. Lets make sure both sides are prosecuted. We are not going to pretend that only Russia might have done something bad are we? If the russians dont pull an america and just ignore the icc.