Oh fucking please. Holocause Denialists, like most idiots who deny atrocities, they are publicly humiliated mostly from their own actions making people find them utterly repulsive. Just like the few people who claimed 9/11 didn't happen shortly after the event, people get mad at them, and the anger can get exploited.
Alex Jones, on the other hand, has been treated more unfairly than most terrorists, let alone most Holocaust Deniers.
Bro, I think the Nazis killed them some Jews, but you are falling right into the trap. Everything must be available for question and suspicion, especially events on which the government bases authoritarian policy.
I never said they didn't. I said that Holocaust Deniers can't try to make this shit about them when people are just pissed at them.
There is a difference between: "shut the fuck up you actual Nazi, I don't want to hear your Hitler dindu speech" and "The law makes no exception to allow for Holocaust Denial".
In America, Holocaust has been completely allowed since it first started. People just don't want to hear Nazis deny atrocities.
that might seem like a reasonable position to take, but dig a little deeper and you'd realize that many people labelled as "holocaust deniers" just questioned some specific numbers and concepts. some did original research on the matter, some presented evidence to support their case. but pressure groups deliberately label any and all such cases as "holocaust deniers", to avoid any debate on the matter.
but why? even if (as I believe) most of the official narrative about the holocaust is correct, do you seriously think there are no accidental inaccuracies? no intentional fabrications? based on just what you've seen since 2020, do you really trust the official narrative, on anything?
take a step back and look what happened here. this is a thread about Alex Jones getting annihilated by a preposterous court decision, that was only possible because people simply accept the narrative of AJ being some great nondescript evil. why is he so bad? don't ask, don't care, he just is, now get me my guillotine. and in this very thread you just dismissed a large group of people who range from genuine scumbags to the simply curious to unpopular researchers who are operating in good faith, as "idiots who deny atrocities". that's something worth reflecting upon.
but dig a little deeper and you'd realize that many people labelled as "holocaust deniers" just questioned some specific numbers and concepts. some did original research on the matter, some presented evidence to support their case.
Are you talking about David Irving? He would be the only one who would fit this bill here. And yet he has an obvious agenda, which is the praise of Hitler and taking down of people like Churchill. You may want to read Evans' book on the trial.
even if (as I believe) most of the official narrative about the holocaust is correct
What exactly is the "official" narrative? As far as I know, there is no "official" narrative.
do you seriously think there are no accidental inaccuracies? no intentional fabrications? based on just what you've seen since 2020, do you really trust the official narrative, on anything?
It's been quite a long time. Fabricatons have come along and been exposed, like the Hitler Diaries and WIlkomirski. As for accidental inaccuracies. No one's called a denier by anyone serious who exposes such an accidental inaccuracy.
and in this very thread you just dismissed a large group of people who range from genuine scumbags to the simply curious to unpopular researchers who are operating in good faith, as "idiots who deny atrocities".
Do you have several of those unpopular researchers on hand? I think you grossly overestimate the good faith in which they operate. Irving is the best among them, but even he is nothing to write home about. (Obviously, he should not be prosecuted, let alone jailed, either.)
but dig a little deeper and you'd realize that many people labelled as "holocaust deniers" just questioned some specific numbers and concepts.
I'm afraid the vast majority of them didn't. That's precisely the problem.
There isn't anyone labeled a Holocaust Denier for thinking that the Soviet estimates of 4 million dead at Auschwitz were too high, including the Camp Commandant. No one is being labeled a Holocaust Denier for not saying that we don't have enough evidence to suggest that this site isn't the area of a mass grave, but this one is.
People are being labeled Holocaust Deniers because they are claiming the literal mountains of bodies were all fake, and the death camps were constructed by the Allies as part of a propaganda campaign, or that there was no genocidal program, despite physical and written evidence to the contrary, or that all the deaths were accountable to Teberculosis, or that Hitler actually had no problems with the Jews and tried to evacuate them to Madagascar because he was such a noble person, or that there aren't even mass graves related to the Holocaust, or that it was fake news since the 1910's, etc., etc.
I'm dismissing a large group of scumbags who are engaged in Nazi apologetics because most of them are Nazis, are Useful Idiots of Nazis, and the ones that aren't are just con men exploiting the Useful Idiots of Nazis for money. The Nazis themselves are well aware that exterminating the Jews is absolutely critical to National Socialism. The jews are considered a bourgeoisie that diluted the Aryan blood of Europe that will cause total civilizational collapse as Judeo-Capitalism funds Judeo-Bolshevist revolutions across Europe until all civilization is destroyed. That is precisely what they believe, and it is exactly why they advocate for the elimination of jews. Holocaust Denial is a bad-faith lie by people who think it was a good thing.
Holocaust Researchers are people who are actually doing research on the event itself, and have never been classified as denialists.
The biggest difference between them and Alex Jones is that Alex Jones is an admittedly confused man who has been bombarded by so much bullshit lies in his life, and has been gaslit for so long, that he thought there might be something to look into about it, and then realized that the actual denialists were just liars and con men.
when you realize jews killed a minimum of 60 million White Christians over the course of their death career they called the soviet union that little 6 bajillion number starts looking a bit fucking low anyway
all this fucking worry about the numbers, ooh the math, the 6 million pizzas with just the three ovens in the pizzeria, who the fuck cares?
did they deserve it? do they deserve it today? back then they genocided russians and tried to do the same to Germany with a luckily failed similar attempted revolution (but they did nonetheless succeed with making weimar a degenerate shithole). now you just look at all the shit they're pulling again now and ask yourself, do they deserve it?
unless you look at the fact that they are overrepresented by thousands of percents if not tens of thousands in every single position today that fucks shit up - media conglomerates, important government positions, bankers, CEOs/basically-CEO-board-members - and decide nahh... can't be good ol jews, the austrian man maybe shot a few so they're absolved of all sin. he was voted in to do it for no reason at all, even. none at all.
Lmao yeah, anyone who questions witness testimony like the literal holocoaster, or the masturbation machines, or the electrified floors that made bodies completely evaporate, or the dogs with poisoned teeth, get humiliated all the time, while the good goyim who believe this shit prove them wrong, definitely using actual arguments and not histrionic screeching and police.
Dude, none of these things exist in any official documentation of the holocaust. The only place where I've ever heard any of these claims is from the holocaust deniers that think that water reservoirs are swimming pools.
You can't just come up with this crazy shit and claim that you're being discriminated against because you're proposing a rational opposition to claims that aren't even repeated in any documentation, evidenciary record, or detailed analysis.
Your best argument is that you found someone that lied about their personal experience, that no one who knows anything about the subject takes seriously.
I didn't come up with this crazy shit, witnesses did. Most if not all of them eventually admitted they lied, because of course they did, this shit is absolutely outlandish and some of it is outright fetishism, but until they did, in plenty of places in Europe it was illegal for a layman to question it.
At the same time, the number of supposed victims kept rising until it stopped at 6 million jews and 5 million others, which is pretty funny because Jews were going on about muh six gorillion since before the war, the number has clearly got some kind of significance to them, and at the same time, finally pegging the death toll at 11M total maximizes victim count while ensuring most are still Jews, both for victim points. Oh, and that shit's not actually documented either, noone ever found 11 million dead bodies, or even records of them, it's just a wild-ass guess at best, and I'd go to pound me in the ass prison if I got caught questioning it. Truth doesn't fear investigation.
I didn't come up with this crazy shit, witnesses did.
Right, you're harping on the most extreme statements false witnesses gave to an actual event, because it's the actual event you want to dismiss.
plenty of places in Europe it was illegal for a layman to question it.
It's not my fault Europe has always been authoritarian.
he number of supposed victims kept rising until it stopped at 6 million jews and 5 million others
I highly doubt that since most of the initial reports, like in most large atrocities, are far above the number that actually gets concluded.
Considering entire neighborhoods were ethnically cleansed, and the Nazis didn't only stop at exterminating jews, you've got the wrong direction of travel those numbers would have taken. No one would have said "we think as many as 100,000 jews were killed" and go up from there. Upon the discovery of most of the camps, the Soviet numbers were typically well inflated, and were lowered as more evidence and confessions were gathered. Even the numbers from Auschwitz have gone from the Soviet initial "back-of-the-envelope math" of 4 million, to 3 million from an initial confession, to about 2 million when the Commandant put a bit more thought into what the numbers really should have been closer to, to about 1.1 million after looking through all the train logs.
Oh, and that shit's not actually documented either, noone ever found 11 million dead bodies, or even records of them, it's just a wild-ass guess at best, and I'd go to pound me in the ass prison if I got caught questioning it.
You know the Nuremburg trial records are all available online, right? We have confessions of the commandants and killers themselves, we have the carrying capacities of trains and their schedules of arrivals and departures, we also have plenty of mass graves on top of that.
The Holocaust is honestly one of the most well documented genocides in all of human history. It's far more well accounted for than the Haitian Revolution, the Rawandan Genocide, the Sack of Persia, and many others.
You could try to turn this around and say "No one's ever found 30 million dead in China from the Famine" or "No one's ever found 1.5 to 2 million dead bodies in Cambodia", thus "Communism dindu nuffin and was a gud boi on his wai to college."
Digging up each and every single body is impossible. Hell, Latvia only in the past decade or so dug up a mass grave of 20,000 Frenchmen from Napoleon's incursion into Russia, that doesn't mean that since they didn't count the bodies before, the invasion didn't happen. That being said, we do have tons of good records, physical evidence, documentary evidence, mass graves, and confessions.
Hell, if we really want to be dark about it, we can talk about all the reprisal killings of Nazis and Germans as the war ended and after, from survivors of the Holocaust. We'll use the economic term and call it: "Revealed Preferences". After all, there must have been a reason why a whole bunch of people wanted to personally murder Germans all of the sudden. We can go anywhere from American reprisal killings upon the discovery of some camps, and even go into detail about the Czechoslovakian butcher who told some of his victims that "I'll make you have wished you were at Auschwitz". For some reason, despite him having actually survived it, apparently he didn't build his victims any swimming pools. He must have meant something else.
And it shouldn't surprise anyone that Jews are the primary victims of the Holocaust, that's literally the entire point of National Socialism. In order to "save" Europe, the objective was to remove all twenty-five million jews from Europe to save Europe from the corruption of it's "blood" and "soil" by jews. Like any Socialist program, the jews were a bourgeoisie who needed to be destroyed, and as Marx said: jews would simply disappear from a socialist society, and Hitler knew how to make them 'disappear'.
Oh fucking please. Holocause Denialists, like most idiots who deny atrocities, they are publicly humiliated mostly from their own actions making people find them utterly repulsive. Just like the few people who claimed 9/11 didn't happen shortly after the event, people get mad at them, and the anger can get exploited.
Alex Jones, on the other hand, has been treated more unfairly than most terrorists, let alone most Holocaust Deniers.
Bro, I think the Nazis killed them some Jews, but you are falling right into the trap. Everything must be available for question and suspicion, especially events on which the government bases authoritarian policy.
Where did he hold the contrary?
I never said they didn't. I said that Holocaust Deniers can't try to make this shit about them when people are just pissed at them.
There is a difference between: "shut the fuck up you actual Nazi, I don't want to hear your Hitler dindu speech" and "The law makes no exception to allow for Holocaust Denial".
In America, Holocaust has been completely allowed since it first started. People just don't want to hear Nazis deny atrocities.
that might seem like a reasonable position to take, but dig a little deeper and you'd realize that many people labelled as "holocaust deniers" just questioned some specific numbers and concepts. some did original research on the matter, some presented evidence to support their case. but pressure groups deliberately label any and all such cases as "holocaust deniers", to avoid any debate on the matter.
but why? even if (as I believe) most of the official narrative about the holocaust is correct, do you seriously think there are no accidental inaccuracies? no intentional fabrications? based on just what you've seen since 2020, do you really trust the official narrative, on anything?
take a step back and look what happened here. this is a thread about Alex Jones getting annihilated by a preposterous court decision, that was only possible because people simply accept the narrative of AJ being some great nondescript evil. why is he so bad? don't ask, don't care, he just is, now get me my guillotine. and in this very thread you just dismissed a large group of people who range from genuine scumbags to the simply curious to unpopular researchers who are operating in good faith, as "idiots who deny atrocities". that's something worth reflecting upon.
Are you talking about David Irving? He would be the only one who would fit this bill here. And yet he has an obvious agenda, which is the praise of Hitler and taking down of people like Churchill. You may want to read Evans' book on the trial.
What exactly is the "official" narrative? As far as I know, there is no "official" narrative.
It's been quite a long time. Fabricatons have come along and been exposed, like the Hitler Diaries and WIlkomirski. As for accidental inaccuracies. No one's called a denier by anyone serious who exposes such an accidental inaccuracy.
Do you have several of those unpopular researchers on hand? I think you grossly overestimate the good faith in which they operate. Irving is the best among them, but even he is nothing to write home about. (Obviously, he should not be prosecuted, let alone jailed, either.)
I'm afraid the vast majority of them didn't. That's precisely the problem.
There isn't anyone labeled a Holocaust Denier for thinking that the Soviet estimates of 4 million dead at Auschwitz were too high, including the Camp Commandant. No one is being labeled a Holocaust Denier for not saying that we don't have enough evidence to suggest that this site isn't the area of a mass grave, but this one is.
People are being labeled Holocaust Deniers because they are claiming the literal mountains of bodies were all fake, and the death camps were constructed by the Allies as part of a propaganda campaign, or that there was no genocidal program, despite physical and written evidence to the contrary, or that all the deaths were accountable to Teberculosis, or that Hitler actually had no problems with the Jews and tried to evacuate them to Madagascar because he was such a noble person, or that there aren't even mass graves related to the Holocaust, or that it was fake news since the 1910's, etc., etc.
I'm dismissing a large group of scumbags who are engaged in Nazi apologetics because most of them are Nazis, are Useful Idiots of Nazis, and the ones that aren't are just con men exploiting the Useful Idiots of Nazis for money. The Nazis themselves are well aware that exterminating the Jews is absolutely critical to National Socialism. The jews are considered a bourgeoisie that diluted the Aryan blood of Europe that will cause total civilizational collapse as Judeo-Capitalism funds Judeo-Bolshevist revolutions across Europe until all civilization is destroyed. That is precisely what they believe, and it is exactly why they advocate for the elimination of jews. Holocaust Denial is a bad-faith lie by people who think it was a good thing.
Holocaust Researchers are people who are actually doing research on the event itself, and have never been classified as denialists.
The biggest difference between them and Alex Jones is that Alex Jones is an admittedly confused man who has been bombarded by so much bullshit lies in his life, and has been gaslit for so long, that he thought there might be something to look into about it, and then realized that the actual denialists were just liars and con men.
when you realize jews killed a minimum of 60 million White Christians over the course of their death career they called the soviet union that little 6 bajillion number starts looking a bit fucking low anyway
all this fucking worry about the numbers, ooh the math, the 6 million pizzas with just the three ovens in the pizzeria, who the fuck cares?
did they deserve it? do they deserve it today? back then they genocided russians and tried to do the same to Germany with a luckily failed similar attempted revolution (but they did nonetheless succeed with making weimar a degenerate shithole). now you just look at all the shit they're pulling again now and ask yourself, do they deserve it?
unless you look at the fact that they are overrepresented by thousands of percents if not tens of thousands in every single position today that fucks shit up - media conglomerates, important government positions, bankers, CEOs/basically-CEO-board-members - and decide nahh... can't be good ol jews, the austrian man maybe shot a few so they're absolved of all sin. he was voted in to do it for no reason at all, even. none at all.
Lmao yeah, anyone who questions witness testimony like the literal holocoaster, or the masturbation machines, or the electrified floors that made bodies completely evaporate, or the dogs with poisoned teeth, get humiliated all the time, while the good goyim who believe this shit prove them wrong, definitely using actual arguments and not histrionic screeching and police.
Dude, none of these things exist in any official documentation of the holocaust. The only place where I've ever heard any of these claims is from the holocaust deniers that think that water reservoirs are swimming pools.
You can't just come up with this crazy shit and claim that you're being discriminated against because you're proposing a rational opposition to claims that aren't even repeated in any documentation, evidenciary record, or detailed analysis.
Your best argument is that you found someone that lied about their personal experience, that no one who knows anything about the subject takes seriously.
I didn't come up with this crazy shit, witnesses did. Most if not all of them eventually admitted they lied, because of course they did, this shit is absolutely outlandish and some of it is outright fetishism, but until they did, in plenty of places in Europe it was illegal for a layman to question it.
At the same time, the number of supposed victims kept rising until it stopped at 6 million jews and 5 million others, which is pretty funny because Jews were going on about muh six gorillion since before the war, the number has clearly got some kind of significance to them, and at the same time, finally pegging the death toll at 11M total maximizes victim count while ensuring most are still Jews, both for victim points. Oh, and that shit's not actually documented either, noone ever found 11 million dead bodies, or even records of them, it's just a wild-ass guess at best, and I'd go to pound me in the ass prison if I got caught questioning it. Truth doesn't fear investigation.
Right, you're harping on the most extreme statements false witnesses gave to an actual event, because it's the actual event you want to dismiss.
It's not my fault Europe has always been authoritarian.
I highly doubt that since most of the initial reports, like in most large atrocities, are far above the number that actually gets concluded.
Considering entire neighborhoods were ethnically cleansed, and the Nazis didn't only stop at exterminating jews, you've got the wrong direction of travel those numbers would have taken. No one would have said "we think as many as 100,000 jews were killed" and go up from there. Upon the discovery of most of the camps, the Soviet numbers were typically well inflated, and were lowered as more evidence and confessions were gathered. Even the numbers from Auschwitz have gone from the Soviet initial "back-of-the-envelope math" of 4 million, to 3 million from an initial confession, to about 2 million when the Commandant put a bit more thought into what the numbers really should have been closer to, to about 1.1 million after looking through all the train logs.
You know the Nuremburg trial records are all available online, right? We have confessions of the commandants and killers themselves, we have the carrying capacities of trains and their schedules of arrivals and departures, we also have plenty of mass graves on top of that.
The Holocaust is honestly one of the most well documented genocides in all of human history. It's far more well accounted for than the Haitian Revolution, the Rawandan Genocide, the Sack of Persia, and many others.
You could try to turn this around and say "No one's ever found 30 million dead in China from the Famine" or "No one's ever found 1.5 to 2 million dead bodies in Cambodia", thus "Communism dindu nuffin and was a gud boi on his wai to college."
Digging up each and every single body is impossible. Hell, Latvia only in the past decade or so dug up a mass grave of 20,000 Frenchmen from Napoleon's incursion into Russia, that doesn't mean that since they didn't count the bodies before, the invasion didn't happen. That being said, we do have tons of good records, physical evidence, documentary evidence, mass graves, and confessions.
Hell, if we really want to be dark about it, we can talk about all the reprisal killings of Nazis and Germans as the war ended and after, from survivors of the Holocaust. We'll use the economic term and call it: "Revealed Preferences". After all, there must have been a reason why a whole bunch of people wanted to personally murder Germans all of the sudden. We can go anywhere from American reprisal killings upon the discovery of some camps, and even go into detail about the Czechoslovakian butcher who told some of his victims that "I'll make you have wished you were at Auschwitz". For some reason, despite him having actually survived it, apparently he didn't build his victims any swimming pools. He must have meant something else.
And it shouldn't surprise anyone that Jews are the primary victims of the Holocaust, that's literally the entire point of National Socialism. In order to "save" Europe, the objective was to remove all twenty-five million jews from Europe to save Europe from the corruption of it's "blood" and "soil" by jews. Like any Socialist program, the jews were a bourgeoisie who needed to be destroyed, and as Marx said: jews would simply disappear from a socialist society, and Hitler knew how to make them 'disappear'.