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Tomorrow Zelensky will be inciting WW3 by demanding that the U.S. Congress approve a no fly zone in Ukraine (archive.ph)
posted 4 years ago by onetruephilosoraptor 4 years ago by onetruephilosoraptor +90 / -0
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▲ 61 ▼
– onetruephilosoraptor [S] 61 points 4 years ago +61 / -0

This whole fucking tragedy would have been avoided if Ukrainian leadership had the common sense to stay neutral and if they didn't play along with NATO's attempt to use Ukraine as a bargaining chip against Russia.

Zelensky is a corrupt little bastard who is constantly using emotional appeals to try to rope the U.S into another world war.

A no fly zone means American planes downing Russian planes.

It is a declaration of war between nuclear powers.

It must be avoided.

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▲ 49 ▼
– TentElephant 49 points 4 years ago +49 / -0

This whole tragedy would have been avoided if Victoria Nuland and friends hadn't overthrown the pro-nuetrality Yanukovych regime.

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▲ 25 ▼
– Grumman 25 points 4 years ago +25 / -0

This. Not joining NATO isn't enough when the Ukrainian revolutionary government has been fighting a war against its Russian minority for eight years.

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▲ 11 ▼
– SupremeReader 11 points 4 years ago +11 / -0

Russian speakers (meaning preferring Russian, because everyone speaks Russian) are majority in Ukraine. It was Lenin-defender minority (and the "vacationers" from Russia).

Of course it's the most right wing thing to sympathise with people who took up arms to defend Lenin statues while flying Soviet flags.

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▲ 15 ▼
– Grumman 15 points 4 years ago +15 / -0

According to the 2001 census there were about twice as many Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians as Russian-speaking Ukrainians, and 4.5 times as many ethnic Ukrainians as ethnic Russians.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 5 ▼
– deleted 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0
▲ 12 ▼
– subbookkeeper 12 points 4 years ago +12 / -0

A no fly zone means American planes downing Russian planes.

I'm not sure the US can. The US has generally achieved aerial dominance with fighters, not SAM systems. Russia has focused on SAM systems in opposition to this.

What will the US do about S-300 and S-400 systems, and god knows what else on the Russian side of the border?

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▲ 11 ▼
– LauriThorne 11 points 4 years ago +11 / -0

If we actually committed to this war? Destroy them with long range missle attacks like we did in Vietnam

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▲ 2 ▼
– subbookkeeper 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

"On the russian side of the border"

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▲ 2 ▼
– LauriThorne 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

What's your point? If we're shooting down their planes we've already committed to war against them. Doesn't really matter where the SAMs are at that point.

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▲ 7 ▼
– SupremeReader 7 points 4 years ago +7 / -0

By the same token, America is extremely well prepared for the mission of SAM suppression.

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▲ 3 ▼
– subbookkeeper 3 points 4 years ago +3 / -0

"On the russian side of the border"

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▲ 11 ▼
– Brennus 11 points 4 years ago +11 / -0

Or if Ukraine didn’t buy that nato and russia would actually protect them if they gave up their own nukes. It’s unlikely russia would have invaded if they thought a retaliation on their own soil would have been possible

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▲ 3 ▼
– Kaarous 3 points 4 years ago +3 / -0

"Their" nukes didn't have keys or launch codes, because the Soviets made sure to take those with them. Those were bargaining chips and nothing more, the Ukraine never could have used them.

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▲ 5 ▼
– Brennus 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0

Yeah, no way of removing weapons grade nuclear material and putting it into their own weapons. If they were useless no reason to make a deal with them to give them up.

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▲ 3 ▼
– Kaarous 3 points 4 years ago +3 / -0

If they were useless no reason to make a deal with them to give them up.

If they were usable there wouldn't have been a deal necessary in either direction.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 6 ▼
– lolfail9001 6 points 4 years ago +6 / -0

Ukrainian leadership had the common sense to stay neutral

Define "neutral". If you think Russian imperial ambition can be negated by staying neutral, you are making the same mistake Zelenskiy did.

I agree that no fly zone is stupid though.

P. S. If you are scared of nuclear war, you are better off preparing some ways to annex or negate threat from Russian territories with nukes when Russia inevitably falls apart.

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▲ 5 ▼
– deleted 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0

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