I’m firmly on Barnes’ side of this argument but if what people are saying about him is true, it’s a disappointing that he’d resort to such tactics.
That said, Fuentes is an identitarian and an authoritarian. He has no problem with fascism or socialism, as long as it’s his flavor of fascism or socialism. His vision of America is NOT the vision of the founding or the Constitution.
This context really shouldn’t matter in deciding who won the debate, though.
Really? Do you guys just not understand the concept of Islamo-Fascism as a form of Islamism and Leftism combined, stemming from Jihadism from the concept of "Social Justice in Islam"?
There is only Islam.
That's actually part of Islam's problem. This is why the first Islamic Civil War started around the time of Muhammad's death, and why they've been in a multiplicity of Islamic Civil Wars over the millennia, interspersed with certain Caliphates reigning dominate over others, all while constantly declaring all other Islamist factions to be apostate.
There are different philosophical sects in Islam, it just doesn't matter if the Muslims kill other Muslims and call the other Muslims apostates for not being the right kind of Muslim. If there weren't different philosophical sects, we wouldn't see the inter-Muslim violence we see.
Of these competing philosophies, the concept of combining Islam and the Social Justice narrative is a modern invention stemming from Jihadist founders of the 20th Century.
Yes, Islam is the mother-load of bad ideas, but you can't simply state that there is no difference between Islam and Fascism, or that the particular version of Islamism that the Left are siding with doesn't have Fascistic elements to it. Many of these Arab Islamist factions adopted aspects of Marxism, Communism, Fascism, and National Socialism as they interacted with the west. The Ba'ath Party was effectively a revolutionary Leftist system that Saddam adopted for his own purposes. The founders of the PLO/PLA had ties to National Socialist Germany. The political Left had as much of an impact on the Arab world as they did on Asia, Africa, and South America.
The Islamo-Fascists are not like Indonesian Muslims, they are not Ottomans, they are not Abyssids, they are not Umayyads. They are a particularly violent sect that are mixing Islamist ideas with Leftist authoritarianism, and it seems to be easy for Islamo-Fascists to gain control over Leftist institutions using Leftist argumentation to implement a very strict Islamic law.
Yes, the Revolutionary Socialists are. Jihadism is Leftist Revolutionary narratives to implement Jihad. This is why one of the founders of Jihadism, Sayyid Qutb wrote a book called "Social Justice in Islam" as his manifesto.
The Leftists generally are treating Islamists as their own Syndicate within Leftist philosophy. The Islamist Syndicate is what is Islamo-Fascist. The Islamists want to dominate the conversation within the Leftist power-sharing structures about creating a 'just' and 'equitable' society through Islam. This will require the state to implement the Islamist Syndicate's policies as the only valid way to approach governing any Muslim living within the state. The Leftists are prepared to let the Islamist Syndicate with the State in order to gain control of the Islamist body politic.
This is Islamo-Fascism because it is Islamist State Syndicalism. Islamism is being implemented as a Syndicate. The Left is not going to scream that Muslims are anti-Feminist and Transphobic (even though they are by the Left's own definitions), because Muslims exist under a separate sphere of influence under the Islamist Syndicate. Hence why the Left can't implement Gender Communism in Islam, but are prepared to work with Islamists and support them as allies.
If anything, I would say Islam is exploiting leftism to increase it's influence.
Both Communism and Islam share the same end goal, albeit with slightly different trappings (worship of the state vs. worship of "Allah"). Unfettered authoritarianism is the root of the problem.
Leftists think they're clever, but they're fooling themselves if they think Islamic leaders can't see through their social manipulations and leverage it for their own ends. The only reason Leftism is so effective in the USA is because people are so drunk on self-indulgence, they have no ability to see or understand anything more complex than a TikTok video anymore.
Sure, but that doesn't remove the Fascist element to consider within western society. The implementation of Leftist narratives of Social Justice that Jihadism preaches is one of the ways Islamism seeks to take root in the west with the assistance of Leftists
You can't ignore the Leftist part, because that specific part is why the middle east is embroiled in war and terrorism. Jihadism is Islamism with revolutionary Leftism added to it. Otherwise, we'd just be dealing with traditional Caliphates as we have for hundreds of years.
I have lost a lot of respect for Barnes recently.
After his mediocre performance in the debate, Barnes started labelling all of his critics as Islamofascists and Nazis on Twitter.
It is pathetic to see a grown man get this butthurt after failing to adequately rebut Fuentes' arguments in a debate that he challenged Fuentes to.
Yeah I know.
Barnes is the one who challenged Nick though.
Shameful display from Barnes in terms of the aftermath.
I’m firmly on Barnes’ side of this argument but if what people are saying about him is true, it’s a disappointing that he’d resort to such tactics.
That said, Fuentes is an identitarian and an authoritarian. He has no problem with fascism or socialism, as long as it’s his flavor of fascism or socialism. His vision of America is NOT the vision of the founding or the Constitution.
This context really shouldn’t matter in deciding who won the debate, though.
Really? Do you guys just not understand the concept of Islamo-Fascism as a form of Islamism and Leftism combined, stemming from Jihadism from the concept of "Social Justice in Islam"?
That's actually part of Islam's problem. This is why the first Islamic Civil War started around the time of Muhammad's death, and why they've been in a multiplicity of Islamic Civil Wars over the millennia, interspersed with certain Caliphates reigning dominate over others, all while constantly declaring all other Islamist factions to be apostate.
There are different philosophical sects in Islam, it just doesn't matter if the Muslims kill other Muslims and call the other Muslims apostates for not being the right kind of Muslim. If there weren't different philosophical sects, we wouldn't see the inter-Muslim violence we see.
Of these competing philosophies, the concept of combining Islam and the Social Justice narrative is a modern invention stemming from Jihadist founders of the 20th Century.
Yes, Islam is the mother-load of bad ideas, but you can't simply state that there is no difference between Islam and Fascism, or that the particular version of Islamism that the Left are siding with doesn't have Fascistic elements to it. Many of these Arab Islamist factions adopted aspects of Marxism, Communism, Fascism, and National Socialism as they interacted with the west. The Ba'ath Party was effectively a revolutionary Leftist system that Saddam adopted for his own purposes. The founders of the PLO/PLA had ties to National Socialist Germany. The political Left had as much of an impact on the Arab world as they did on Asia, Africa, and South America.
The Islamo-Fascists are not like Indonesian Muslims, they are not Ottomans, they are not Abyssids, they are not Umayyads. They are a particularly violent sect that are mixing Islamist ideas with Leftist authoritarianism, and it seems to be easy for Islamo-Fascists to gain control over Leftist institutions using Leftist argumentation to implement a very strict Islamic law.
Yes, the Revolutionary Socialists are. Jihadism is Leftist Revolutionary narratives to implement Jihad. This is why one of the founders of Jihadism, Sayyid Qutb wrote a book called "Social Justice in Islam" as his manifesto.
The Leftists generally are treating Islamists as their own Syndicate within Leftist philosophy. The Islamist Syndicate is what is Islamo-Fascist. The Islamists want to dominate the conversation within the Leftist power-sharing structures about creating a 'just' and 'equitable' society through Islam. This will require the state to implement the Islamist Syndicate's policies as the only valid way to approach governing any Muslim living within the state. The Leftists are prepared to let the Islamist Syndicate with the State in order to gain control of the Islamist body politic.
This is Islamo-Fascism because it is Islamist State Syndicalism. Islamism is being implemented as a Syndicate. The Left is not going to scream that Muslims are anti-Feminist and Transphobic (even though they are by the Left's own definitions), because Muslims exist under a separate sphere of influence under the Islamist Syndicate. Hence why the Left can't implement Gender Communism in Islam, but are prepared to work with Islamists and support them as allies.
Everything. Including Islam. What's your point?
That's like saying you don't see Islam in Applied Post-Modernism. So what? That's just one angle of attack?
If anything, I would say Islam is exploiting leftism to increase it's influence.
Both Communism and Islam share the same end goal, albeit with slightly different trappings (worship of the state vs. worship of "Allah"). Unfettered authoritarianism is the root of the problem.
Leftists think they're clever, but they're fooling themselves if they think Islamic leaders can't see through their social manipulations and leverage it for their own ends. The only reason Leftism is so effective in the USA is because people are so drunk on self-indulgence, they have no ability to see or understand anything more complex than a TikTok video anymore.
Sure, but that doesn't remove the Fascist element to consider within western society. The implementation of Leftist narratives of Social Justice that Jihadism preaches is one of the ways Islamism seeks to take root in the west with the assistance of Leftists
You can't ignore the Leftist part, because that specific part is why the middle east is embroiled in war and terrorism. Jihadism is Islamism with revolutionary Leftism added to it. Otherwise, we'd just be dealing with traditional Caliphates as we have for hundreds of years.
Sounds like someone who's been listening to Styx too much.