I know the rules are fucking burdensome as fuck, but it's amazing the level of leeway that Reddit will grant everyone who they tolerate.
It reminds me when r/Anarchism was talking about firebombing a bull full of Christian political activists who were opposing something related to transgenderism. Probably the bathroom thing. They literally said they wanted to put gasoline soaked rags into the fuel tank and burn the bus up with everyone inside.
The Reddit Admins contacted the moderators of the sub directly to tell them that they can't just keep ignoring threats of violence and terrorism like that. However, the mods refused to remove the comment, so the Admins removed it for them. Then the mods made this big stink about how the Admins weren't allowing them to say fairly unrelated and innocuous things like their standard Antifa chants.
The Admins were cutting them breaks left and right, and the anarchists were too stupid to understand that they were being helped out.
I mean, you can see this play out pretty easily across GG's history.
Back in the day SRS, TMoR, or whoever was basically immune to consequences. Admins just allowed anything. Sometimes rare shit had to get action'd but never anything further.
With enough dick sucking, KIA gained a measure of their favor and has been allowed a lot more free existence relative to most Culture War subs. As long as they still bark at the right stuff, they will likely maintain such.
KIA2 is far less sucky sucky, and much more volatile as a group, and so we have absurdly strict hoops to jump through and the most bullshit of rules. While the Primetards mock us for all our additional rules constantly (mostly out of hate for Antonio it seems) they fail to understand its a lot more free existence despite it. Reminds me of a quote from Nier Replicant:
The rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms.
While still oppressive, at least we know what we can do and can work around it. No pre-emptive thought criming.
With enough dick sucking, KIA gained a measure of their favor and has been allowed a lot more free existence relative to most Culture War subs. As long as they still bark at the right stuff, they will likely maintain such.
I don't really believe that. It's too much containment. And the way this works inevitably, is that they get betrayed and shut down anyway. There's no way that a place that identifies with GamerGate will be allowed to live un-raped. Seeing how hostile the admins behavior has been, I feel like allowing the original sub back after the David-Me incident is almost a fluke. One day, no matter what, they'll pay the price for having dared to exist as a relic of reactionary & counter-revolutionary thought.
(mostly out of hate for Antonio it seems)
AoV genuinely gets on their nerves repeatedly. Even when he really doesn't have too. He knows how to get in people's fucking craw. He still wants KiA to do better, and that craw-maneuver is a desperate attempt to make them do the right thing. I never really had that same desire because I never really spent much time on the original KiA. I never found it to be a worthwhile argument to try and push them kicking and screaming into the right direction.
While still oppressive, at least we know what we can do and can work around it.
That seems to be the real key with authoritarianism. Vague enforcement and unknowable regulations aren't a bug, it's a feature. A procedural, bureaucratic, maniac is not going to have a problem trying to make vast Byzantine regulations... but he wants you to follow them. He'll print you a handy guide to stay within the regulations. He'll even let you know about the latest changes.
The authoritarian would never do that. At this point, I'd go so far as to say that institutional vagueness should be seen as a hostile act. The only reason that someone would not tell you the rules, is so that they can punish you arbitrarily. They want to punish you. They don't want your compliance. If they wanted your compliance, they would tell you how to comply.
The authoritarian doesn't want compliance, he wants submission. Once the authoritarian has submission, then procedures are totally irrelevant. You don't need laws to enforce the will of the tyrant. The mere presence of the tyrant is enough.
And that's actually where my counter lies, and it is a dangerous one. The Balance of Terror between The Tyrant and The Bureaucrat. The Bureaucrat never disobeys, but the force of law that the Bureaucrat creates is a useful moral weapon. But he builds it intentionally outside of the Tyrant's immediate reach. It could, in theory, be weilded by anyone. That's the allure: all are answerable to the law. But the tyrant must never point the weapon at him, and the bureaucrat is the one who makes it more powerful.
If the tyrant ignores or attacks the law, it can be used against him. If the tyrant legitimizes it, it can become independent of his control. If he delegitimizes it, he can't use it. If he leaves it alone with the bureaucrat, the bureaucrat will use it for himself.
A smart tyrant will quickly realize that the bureaucracy must either be placated, set against itself, or fucking purged. I'm hoping to see how long I can drag this out on Reddit before someone wakes up and realizes, "Oh, no. Purge those little shits." I'm hoping to get the chance to apply our "No election interference exists" rule on the Belarusian Election.
And the way this works inevitably, is that they get betrayed and shut down anyway. There's no way that a place that identifies with GamerGate will be allowed to live un-raped
I don't disagree, but I think the Admins realized early on that allowing a milquetoast place like that to exist, filled with mods willing to compromise a lot, is the best option. Its pure containment designed to "outlast" the drama.
And outlast it has, the place is a shell and shadow of itself that barely does anything but circlejerk about how mad it is while doing nothing about it. The Admins will take it one day, but its much more likely as an afterthought after a single person gets too uppity.
AoV genuinely gets on their nerves repeatedly. Even when he really doesn't have too.
He does that to anyone. I've known him around these places a long while and we are only acquaintances because of our shared goals of opposing the KIA mods and much of the culture war. We went back and forth on KIA1 and we still go back and forth now. He grates the nerves to argue with some days. Not a bad guy, but certainly a character and I like him enough.
But they were apparently friends at some points, you would think they know him to not take it as personal. Because their hate is incredibly personally driven. Nearly every action taken that broke KIA for months seems to be taken in direct response and in spite of him alone. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but to the outside it made them look horrifically childish.
Vague enforcement and unknowable regulations aren't a bug, it's a feature
I agree, that's what I was getting at. Things like "on the verge of anti-mask" are designed not to punish you, but to make everyone else hesitate in fear of getting the same lash. The paranoia built up by constant fear of the "line" is their goal.
Something even the couyons on KIA1 don't get when they attack people for vaguely approaching things that they don't like like anti-women or anti-Jew.
The Admins will take it one day, but its much more likely as an afterthought after a single person gets too uppity.
Agreed, I bet you the person that ends it will carry around something in their Twitter bio as a title like "Killed GamerGate" as a virtue signal.
Nearly every action taken that broke KIA for months seems to be taken in direct response and in spite of him alone.
I'm not gonna say all of them were, but it sure seems like a chunk of them were.
Something even the couyons on KIA1 don't get when they attack people for vaguely approaching things that they don't like like anti-women or anti-Jew.
Honestly, part of the problem with Reddit janitoring is that not only do I have to engage with all antisemitism, I actually have to start looking for it everywhere in everything like a god-damned paranoid lunatic.
It's like the inverse of Jewish Conspiracy Theory nonsense. I've got a massive wall of comments with little red lines going from one comment to another, with /pol memes written on sticky notes and circled repeatedly.
Hitler's Birthday! -----> PATTON????
I've genuinely had to apologize for removing completely innocuous statements that my brain tried to pattern-recognize into an antisemetic meme. ...which is also an pol meme... That being said, it would be easier if the alt-right weren't actively trying to hide their power level, but what choice do they have if they're constantly being censored? The censorship begets the hyper-sensitivity, begets the power-level-hiding, begets the censor's paranoia, begets the over-reaction, begets the genuine oppression, begets the justification of victimhood, begets the radicalism.
:p
The whole censorship structure only feeds into the problem. It never fixes it.
We shall see.
I know the rules are fucking burdensome as fuck, but it's amazing the level of leeway that Reddit will grant everyone who they tolerate.
It reminds me when r/Anarchism was talking about firebombing a bull full of Christian political activists who were opposing something related to transgenderism. Probably the bathroom thing. They literally said they wanted to put gasoline soaked rags into the fuel tank and burn the bus up with everyone inside.
The Reddit Admins contacted the moderators of the sub directly to tell them that they can't just keep ignoring threats of violence and terrorism like that. However, the mods refused to remove the comment, so the Admins removed it for them. Then the mods made this big stink about how the Admins weren't allowing them to say fairly unrelated and innocuous things like their standard Antifa chants.
The Admins were cutting them breaks left and right, and the anarchists were too stupid to understand that they were being helped out.
I mean, you can see this play out pretty easily across GG's history.
Back in the day SRS, TMoR, or whoever was basically immune to consequences. Admins just allowed anything. Sometimes rare shit had to get action'd but never anything further.
With enough dick sucking, KIA gained a measure of their favor and has been allowed a lot more free existence relative to most Culture War subs. As long as they still bark at the right stuff, they will likely maintain such.
KIA2 is far less sucky sucky, and much more volatile as a group, and so we have absurdly strict hoops to jump through and the most bullshit of rules. While the Primetards mock us for all our additional rules constantly (mostly out of hate for Antonio it seems) they fail to understand its a lot more free existence despite it. Reminds me of a quote from Nier Replicant:
While still oppressive, at least we know what we can do and can work around it. No pre-emptive thought criming.
I don't really believe that. It's too much containment. And the way this works inevitably, is that they get betrayed and shut down anyway. There's no way that a place that identifies with GamerGate will be allowed to live un-raped. Seeing how hostile the admins behavior has been, I feel like allowing the original sub back after the David-Me incident is almost a fluke. One day, no matter what, they'll pay the price for having dared to exist as a relic of reactionary & counter-revolutionary thought.
AoV genuinely gets on their nerves repeatedly. Even when he really doesn't have too. He knows how to get in people's fucking craw. He still wants KiA to do better, and that craw-maneuver is a desperate attempt to make them do the right thing. I never really had that same desire because I never really spent much time on the original KiA. I never found it to be a worthwhile argument to try and push them kicking and screaming into the right direction.
That seems to be the real key with authoritarianism. Vague enforcement and unknowable regulations aren't a bug, it's a feature. A procedural, bureaucratic, maniac is not going to have a problem trying to make vast Byzantine regulations... but he wants you to follow them. He'll print you a handy guide to stay within the regulations. He'll even let you know about the latest changes.
The authoritarian would never do that. At this point, I'd go so far as to say that institutional vagueness should be seen as a hostile act. The only reason that someone would not tell you the rules, is so that they can punish you arbitrarily. They want to punish you. They don't want your compliance. If they wanted your compliance, they would tell you how to comply.
The authoritarian doesn't want compliance, he wants submission. Once the authoritarian has submission, then procedures are totally irrelevant. You don't need laws to enforce the will of the tyrant. The mere presence of the tyrant is enough.
And that's actually where my counter lies, and it is a dangerous one. The Balance of Terror between The Tyrant and The Bureaucrat. The Bureaucrat never disobeys, but the force of law that the Bureaucrat creates is a useful moral weapon. But he builds it intentionally outside of the Tyrant's immediate reach. It could, in theory, be weilded by anyone. That's the allure: all are answerable to the law. But the tyrant must never point the weapon at him, and the bureaucrat is the one who makes it more powerful.
If the tyrant ignores or attacks the law, it can be used against him. If the tyrant legitimizes it, it can become independent of his control. If he delegitimizes it, he can't use it. If he leaves it alone with the bureaucrat, the bureaucrat will use it for himself.
A smart tyrant will quickly realize that the bureaucracy must either be placated, set against itself, or fucking purged. I'm hoping to see how long I can drag this out on Reddit before someone wakes up and realizes, "Oh, no. Purge those little shits." I'm hoping to get the chance to apply our "No election interference exists" rule on the Belarusian Election.
I don't disagree, but I think the Admins realized early on that allowing a milquetoast place like that to exist, filled with mods willing to compromise a lot, is the best option. Its pure containment designed to "outlast" the drama.
And outlast it has, the place is a shell and shadow of itself that barely does anything but circlejerk about how mad it is while doing nothing about it. The Admins will take it one day, but its much more likely as an afterthought after a single person gets too uppity.
He does that to anyone. I've known him around these places a long while and we are only acquaintances because of our shared goals of opposing the KIA mods and much of the culture war. We went back and forth on KIA1 and we still go back and forth now. He grates the nerves to argue with some days. Not a bad guy, but certainly a character and I like him enough.
But they were apparently friends at some points, you would think they know him to not take it as personal. Because their hate is incredibly personally driven. Nearly every action taken that broke KIA for months seems to be taken in direct response and in spite of him alone. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but to the outside it made them look horrifically childish.
I agree, that's what I was getting at. Things like "on the verge of anti-mask" are designed not to punish you, but to make everyone else hesitate in fear of getting the same lash. The paranoia built up by constant fear of the "line" is their goal.
Something even the couyons on KIA1 don't get when they attack people for vaguely approaching things that they don't like like anti-women or anti-Jew.
Agreed, I bet you the person that ends it will carry around something in their Twitter bio as a title like "Killed GamerGate" as a virtue signal.
I'm not gonna say all of them were, but it sure seems like a chunk of them were.
Honestly, part of the problem with Reddit janitoring is that not only do I have to engage with all antisemitism, I actually have to start looking for it everywhere in everything like a god-damned paranoid lunatic.
It's like the inverse of Jewish Conspiracy Theory nonsense. I've got a massive wall of comments with little red lines going from one comment to another, with /pol memes written on sticky notes and circled repeatedly.
Hitler's Birthday! -----> PATTON????
I've genuinely had to apologize for removing completely innocuous statements that my brain tried to pattern-recognize into an antisemetic meme. ...which is also an pol meme... That being said, it would be easier if the alt-right weren't actively trying to hide their power level, but what choice do they have if they're constantly being censored? The censorship begets the hyper-sensitivity, begets the power-level-hiding, begets the censor's paranoia, begets the over-reaction, begets the genuine oppression, begets the justification of victimhood, begets the radicalism.
:p
The whole censorship structure only feeds into the problem. It never fixes it.