As everyone has heard by now, an F-15E was shot down last week in Iran. The E model is a two-seater, and both crewmembers ejected. The US immediately launched a massive recovery operation. One of the supporting A-10s was subsequently shot down and had to ditch in the Persian Gulf. One (or two) C-130s broke down at an improvised landing strip in Iran and had to be destroyed. We may find out about other losses as well.
The first lost crewmember was rescued in about a day and the other was just rescued last night after a prolonged firefight with Iranian IRGC, paramilitary forces, and civilians looking for a bounty. Here are some points:
- Prima facie, the shootdown proves that Iranian air defense is not totally dead yet, contra Trump's ill-timed claim last week. The current thinking is that they have abandoned whatever radar-guided SAMs they have left and are exclusively using heat-seeking SAMs.
- At the same time, the American response proves that Iranian air defense is spotty at best. In the recovery operation, American helicopters and C-130s, which are far more vulnerable to SAMs, were flying low over the crash area constantly in broad daylight.
- There is also a threat from Iranian MANPADs (shoulder-fired SAMs). Those would have shot down the helicopters, so it seems that the Iranians are being very choosy as to where they deploy their resources.
- American special forces landed in Iranian territory, got to the pilots first, and fought off a huge force of IRGC and paramilitaries to successfully accomplish their mission. America still has the edge in a ground engagement, especially at night.
- A decent number of civilians in the area were apparently motivated to capture the pilot, and the claim is that the Iranian government had to lie to them that the pilot was captured elsewhere in order to calm the crowd. This detracts from the claim that the Iranian people are itching to overthrow the regime. I am not sure exactly what ethnicity lives in that area.
- The first shootdowns of American aircraft are noteworthy, but they are not exactly out of the norm. Even when the US steamrolled Iraq in Desert Storm 1991, about 30-40+ aircraft and helicopters were lost to enemy fire.
- At the same time, the shootdowns prove that Iran is resilient and not ready to roll over. They have survived the shock and awe and are adjusting their tactics.
So in summary, we the goyim are still really good at waging war, but Iran continues to survive and make the war costly. This is still looking like a possible spreadsheet defeat for the US as we continue to rack up expensive losses of equipment and ammunition.
At the same time, Iran is a civilized country that depends on complex infrastructure, and they won't be able to defend or absorb the powerplant and oil strikes that Trump is threatening. They will, however, be able to bring down a lot of the Gulf with them.
This has been confirmed by independent journalists and Iran itself, so no.
Yeah OK lol, so you think the IRGC were just lazy and didn't really care about capturing an American pilot?
Because we got them out safely, which few militaries could even think about doing. In fact I would go so far as to say that no military besides ours is capable of an operation like this.
As far as the actual loss of the F-15, every single military in the world is going to lose combat aircraft at some point. After hundreds of sorties this was bound to happen.
Iran's military forces are heavily decentralized, it's been part of their doctrine for more than a decade. They can't react extremely quickly for individual objectives like a more centralized command structure can. The flip side of that is they are very hard to actually kill, which is what they're going for since they recognized correctly that our silly excuse for a doctrine focuses on decapitation strikes.
So no, they probably have no dedicated QRF to go bag some guy they downed.
Agreed, there’s also a big difference between the US sending four planes and helicopters to track a GPS signal in mountainous terrain versus Iran sending ground troops and villagers to search for someone with no locator who’s actively evading capture. Which approach do you think would locate the person faster?
Iran is not as STUPID as the US to send their planes and helis to get potentially blown up, to find one fucking guy.... They literally blew the first plane up, waited for the rescue attempt, and blew that up too.
And that precisely is why we're going to lose (already lost) this war.....
True, but no dedicated QRF was alleged. Merely a lot of guys with AKs operating in their own backyard.
Sure. Which isn't going to get that job done. That's why I brought up dedicated QRF. Because you'd need one to actually make a capture.
Lots and lots of the country isn't inhabitated by people with much communication equipment more precise than a radio.
And the Iranian leadership has been doing their level best to keep those guys from invading Iraq anyway.
Guys with AKs and no comms worked pretty well against the Chinooks in Operation Red Wings. And that was only 12 guys. (well, a few more by the time the QRF came in, but still.)
Iran presumably also has, or should have, scouting capability with drones.
Iran didn’t confirm shit. Their news site literally says that they foiled the attempts and shot down two c-130s and blackhawks attempting a rescue.
I was being very generous even assuming that they managed to rescue the pilot in my write up.
If I wanna go with what Iran is saying… the entire rescue op was a complete failure.
You think the IRGC can just magically teleport to where the pilot is? Through uninhabited mountainous terrain? They don’t even know where he landed because he could be anywhere and mobile. This isn’t a video game.
The second the guy was shot down the US sent rescue forces to his exact location because they had him on GPS and pulled him out while suffering more losses.
No, they said Trump "ran away" and then emphasized the destruction of the assets, tacitly admitting to the story. They didn't announce that the crew had been killed or captured.
Oh, but the Americans can? Literally in Iran's backyard?
Now you are admitting that the rescue op was successful. Lol. How did the Americans pick up his electronic beacon and the Iranians didn't? Maybe Americans have superior technology designed for exactly this condition?
Listen to yourself.
"The US Army’s so-called rescue operation, which was planned in the form of a deceive and immediate escape operation under the pretext of rescuing the pilot of its downed aircraft in an abandoned airport in southern Isfahan, was brought to a complete failure by the timing presence of the Iranian armed forces,” Lieutenant-Colonel Ebrahim Zolfaqari said on Sunday."
They literally said "brought to a complete failure".
Stop misleading people. Read.
I'll break it down for you in caveman speak:
Helicopter can fly. Helicopter fast. Foot soldier and car not fast, no fly. Fly in mountainous terrain = good.
Never admitted anything, I presented it as one possible scenario out of two.
"How come Iranian's can't use GPS which is owned by the US Military???"
Yeah, AKA bullshit. If they had killed or captured the crew, they would've said that. Why are you only good at filtering propaganda from ZOG?
The helicopters are flying in from outside Iran's borders through an air defense network. Man, you are retarded lol
Oh yeah btw, GPS is a one-way technology. You can't transmit your location info to a GPS satellite.